Century University

Originally posted by porky_pig_jr:

Be more creative. Why not setup the page 'Design your own Doctoral Certificate'. Then you can send it to nearby colour laser printer. Instant gratification!


I believe for the maximum benefit, designing one's diploma should be set up as the capstone project for completion of the degree. Extra credit could be given for creative use of graphics/color and for presentation as demonstrated in framing techniques. Graduate Studies review would be optional, for additional credit and the award of a suitably inscribed Post-it note.



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Nicole Ballard
HUX Phase III Advisor
Thesis/Graduation requirements

 

This is indeed very well said. The good doctor writes: "one man's degree mill is another man's alternative university." And like what Jeanette Winterson says, "Oranges are not the only fruit." So who are we to judge???

If I remembered correctly from the Bear's Guide, John once wrote that only a certain percentage of the graduates of a particular school was willing to return their diplomas for refunds shortly after the legalilty of their school became an issue. Having said that, it is safe to assume that while some Century Grads are 150% satisfied with their degrees, some are not willing to tell you, despite their degrees are for self-esteem and validation of one's life, that they were, for example, challenged by collegues, relatives, your mother-in-law...etc. A simple but telling example that came to my mind is Neil Hynd, who happily, and confidently asserts that his doctorate from Century has done him much good and that he's proud of it despite that it's accredited by ACI. However, on his webpages he fails to disclose that his Ph.D is from Century University, but rather, "US licenced State-approved DL Doctorate." While he may be the one who's happy about his Ph.D, and too, happy to mask his alma mater, I'm sure many of us certainly won't be.

Further, if self-esteem and validation of one's work is of paramount importance, why would anyone choose to validate their philosophies from a school that is less than credible? (especially when you know they're likely to validate Curious George's very important thesis on why water is wet)

Yes, Century may excel in ways which other unaccredited universities do not. I.e., they might refund your tuition promptly...etc. But let us not forget, the fact that complaints and bitchings on CU are low may be due to the fact that a prospective student is to sign and acknowledge that CU is unaccredited and that they don't meet any national or state licensing criterias. In other words, "don't complain to us if Steve won't call you a doctor even though u're just validating your own work!"

Byran Lee, who will soon be graduating from a Canadian Provincial Chartered University Degree Program

 

Hi,

Or should it be "Low" ?

Since you've chosen to introduce my name here without bothering to do a lot of (any ?) research, perhaps you won't mind if I direct you to:-
http://www.bfranklin.edu/hubs/gulf/gulf9801.htm

Taking the last link will show a series of pages that have been on the web for over two years. They cover all of the issues you refer to so incompletely.

Interestingly, I see you are about to graduate from a chartered university. Welcome. I have graduated from three of them. And from an American state-licensed one.

I have also learned that education involves lot more that trying to use your own "certifcate" as a big stick to beat others over the head with.

Perhaps one day you'll learn that too. But I won't hold my breath until it happens.

Cheers,

Neil Hynd

 

Since you've chosen to introduce my name here without bothering to do a lot of (any ?) research, perhaps you won't mind if I direct you to:-

It was from the AED where I learned about Mr. Hynd and his constant defense on the legitmacy of CU. Your name readily popped in my mind. Like I said, there is no right or wrong. I was giving my own perspective on this matter. So, relax, and have some chocolate.

http://www.bfranklin.edu/hubs/gulf/gulf9801.htm

So I went there alrite. I don't see ur alma mater anywhere. Believe me, I'm not that obsessed with you. But the following link doesn't show jack about CU either. The other chartered schools are there, though. Funny...
http://e-oasis100.e-oasis.com/gld3/255.html


Interestingly, I see you are about to graduate from a chartered university. Welcome. I have graduated from three of them. And from an American state-licensed one.

Maybe I'm just too old. I thought kids nowadays brag about scooters and their Nike t-shirts. I guess the trend is NOT to give them the name of the school you grad from. The choice is yours, of course.

"Hey man, I grad from the totally legal wyoming state-licenced and approved DL doctorate!"

I have also learned that education involves lot more that trying to use your own "certifcate" as a big stick to beat others over the head with.

Wait a sec, that's not me.
But for CU, it might be otherwise. Beating another guy on the head with a CU doctoral certificate that is "printed on superior quality parchment...that measures 12" X 14," maybe, in some cases, be more advantageous since the Bachelor and Master certs measure only 7" X 9". (so states the CU calender)

Perhaps one day you'll learn that too. But I won't hold my breath until it happens.

With few exceptions,I don't see how "learning" and "validation of one's work" can be accomplished
from a school accredited by ACI, especially when there are other credible unaccredited schools out there. (perhaps the esteemed Peelsburi Doughboy?)

Neil Hynd

[/B][/QUOTE]

 

Opps...I guess the page didn't turn out how I wanted it to be.

Hynd: Since you've chosen to introduce my name here without bothering to do a lot of (any ?) research, perhaps you won't mind if I direct you to:-

Byran: It was from the AED where I learned about Mr. Hynd and his constant defense on the legitmacy of CU. Your name readily popped in my mind. Like I said, there is no right or wrong. I was giving my own perspective on this matter. So, relax, and have some chocolate.

Hynd: http://www.bfranklin.edu/hubs/gulf/gulf9801.htm]http://www.bfranklin.edu/hubs/gulf/gulf9801.htm[/url]

Byran: So I went there alrite. I don't see ur alma mater anywhere. Believe me, I'm not that obsessed with you. But the following link doesn't show jack about CU either. The other chartered schools are there, though. Funny...
http://e-oasis100.e-oasis.com/gld3/255.html


Hynd: Interestingly, I see you are about to graduate from a chartered university. Welcome. I have graduated from three of them. And from an American state-licensed one.

Byran: Maybe I'm just too old. I thought kids nowadays brag about scooters and their Nike t-shirts. I guess the trend is NOT to give them the name of the school you grad from. The choice is yours, of course.

"Hey man, I grad from the totally legal wyoming state-licenced and approved DL doctorate!"

Hynd: I have also learned that education involves lot more that trying to use your own "certifcate" as a big stick to beat others over the head with.

Byran: Wait a sec, that's not me.
But for CU, it might be otherwise. Beating another guy on the head with a CU doctoral certificate that is "printed on superior quality parchment...that measures 12" X 14," maybe, in some cases, be more advantageous since the Bachelor and Master certs measure only 7" X 9". (so states the CU calender)

Hynd: Perhaps one day you'll learn that too. But I won't hold my breath until it happens.

Byran: With few exceptions,I don't see how "learning" and "validation of one's work" can be accomplished
from a school accredited by ACI, especially when there are other credible unaccredited schools out there. (perhaps the esteemed Peelsburi Doughboy?)

 

Actually, Neil, I have heard that you are now pursuing another doctoral degree.

Perhaps you would care to confirm this and, if so, do tell us the name of the school from which you are pursuing it.

 

Golly, I'm really sorry, folks . . . I never realized that the ultimate arbiter for the legitimacy of a degree was the satisfaction of the degree holder. Perhaps I was being waaaaaaaayyyy too distracted by a little something called social responsibility.

(Tongue now out of cheek . . .)

You see, Rich's research is skewed because (1) it only looks at one factor, and (2) it fails to note the psychological implication that a person is not likely to admit his or her own mistakes. (Just like I have accused Rich of being in denial about the notion that his MIGS degree will be legitimate. One of the most difficult things for people to admit, especially in a public forum, is that they have screwed up.)

The key question is not whether people are satisfied with their credentials from degree mills. There are far more important issues, like: Is the person with, say, a counseling degree from Century actually qualified[/] to engage in professional counseling? Is someone who holds a degree in education from MIGS actually qualified to teach or to administer an academic program? Is someone with a doctorate from American Coastline actually qualified to start a doctoral program? And so it goes.

That is social responsibility. It addresses not only whether a degree has the desired results for the graduate. (As Bryan noted, I question even that when it comes to Neil and his Century doctorate. In fact, I question it when it comes to Rich, who has ceased to call himself "Ph.D. Candidate, MIGS," and now uses "Ph.D. Candidate, CEU." I submit that both of them feel shame as well as denial.) It addresses what the impact of the degree will be upon other people with whom the degree holder will interact on a professional basis.

So does it surprise me that a majority of Century's graduates are [i/not "a lot of angry, vocal consumers screaming about being ripped off?" Of course not. Human nature and denial go together like, well, Neil Hynd and Century University. Or Rich Douglas and MIGS - sorry, CEU.

Many long-time readers of both this forum and a.e.d. know the story of Barry Foster, who has posted on both and who earned more than one degree mill credential before going back and cleaning up his credentials.) Barry recently earned his regionally accredited doctorate from The Fielding Institute). And, to this day, he is the only person who ever wrote on the newsgroup, "I screwed up," and then made it right. I submit to you that that is credibility. If Neil or Rich were to say that, they'd shoot to the top of my list. But, as Neil wrote, "But I won't hold my breath until it happens." The nature of people still leans toward denial, which is one more factor in Rich's research being so skewed in the first place as to look only at the satisfaction of the degree holder.

 

Who said anything about the quality or thoroughness of my data? Or that I covered every angle possible? I just said if they knew why they were pursuing their degrees, they tended to be happy with the result. It was one measure, from the consumer's standpoint. Someone who has graduated from two learner-centered graduate programs should understand that. I didn't say it was the only important measure; all the other issues Steve mentions have merit. But Steve likes to set up his "strawmen" and then knock them down. It's like watching a guy argue with himself because no one else will.

Rich Douglas, who's taken to just signing his name because Steve's right, titles and such aren't as important as ideas. (Or am I putting words into HIS mouth?

 

Not at all, Rich. In fact, I agree with you: ideas are more important than rights or titles. But then, I'm not the one who signs with titles like Ph.D. Candidate, MIGS. Um, CEU. (But then, with a regionally accredited Ph.D., I never felt the need.)

 

Before I saw these two posts, I was all ready to write a nice little polemic kvetching at you both for taking titles way too seriously. Glad you folks beat me to the punch.

My almost-top author-hero at the moment, right behind John Phd Bear and Mariah Ma Bear, is Rosemary Ellen Guiley (author of Harper's Encyclopedia of Mystical and Paranormal Experience, Encyclopedia of Angels, Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft, Encyclopedia of Ghosts and Spirits, etc. etc. etc.). She writes exactly the sort of books I thought someone would need a Ph.D. to write, and she has more credibility as a writer than most academics (because she's actually sympathetic towards the causes she writes about; whether she's writing about Meister Eckhart or the Tarot, she treats her subjects with great respect -- which is exactly what I'd like to do as a religion writer, when it becomes possible). I'd still like to pursue my Ph.D. in theology, just because it gives folks one more excuse to hire me for something (I get to be part of the "95% of our professors have terminal degrees" instead of the 5% who don't), but I don't think it'll transform me. The research will, but the degree itself probably won't.

If I thought my degrees were the only things that gave me credibility, I'd burn them in effigy (well, they're too expensive to destroy) and start from scratch. The fact of the matter is that the "Tom Head" in "Tom Head, Ph.D." should be the credible part -- and the "Ph.D.," whether it comes from Harvard or Potchefstroom or Our Lady of the Lake State University, should just be icing on the cake.


Peace,

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Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

I must congratulate you, Steve,

Your snooping software or network of spies is serving you .... partly well ..... although several confidants have known of my ideas/intentions for about a year.

In case anyone's interested I'll expand, since if anything it serves to show how the scope and capabilities of Distance Education are mushrooming quite dramatically.

At the time of my CU outline (90/91), the amount of usable personal computer power (hardware and software) was very limited compared with that available to on-campus students, and of course remote online working was impossible.

Never-the-less, I managed to complete my dissertation in the Management Information Systems area using fully-functional (but limited capacity) 1994 demonstration 4GL proprietary software which remains current (though updated) today and with a blue-chip list of users. It served its purpose, and met the requirements of the three CU RA-PhD doctoral dissertation panel.

Ten years later, the scope of campus-based software has developed as you might expect - in particular a US system called MATLAB which is used in advanced mathematical modelling and optimal control calculations. Of course, the cost of this is beyond any private individual and so is confined to campuses, research labs and the like .. although now with remote access being possible.

However, European collaboration has produced the SCILAB downloadable package which now makes it possible to have an equivalent amount of personal computing power with the ability to integrate one's own added code. This is something I have wanted to do for a long time since my UK master's degree in the 1970's, but have never had the chance or capability.

This led me to start looking for a suitable university to handle it through, allowing for all the judgmental factors that apply today compared with 10 or 15 years ago - and again without selling the farm.

One offer I have is from a UK-Australia university consortium linked with DETC and another is from MIGS (for which I would already be ABD). The deal isn't done yet, and I'm still looking - but you might just help to tip the balance for me, Steve !!!

Incidentally, when are we going to see the results of your next "magnum opus" ?

I did enjoy reading your doctoral thesis (how old is that now ?), which I thought was very well written - although it did come across as a sort of UK "Sunday Times" Insight Team piece. Which to my mind is no bad thing ... just not that original.

Apart from anything else, I'm sure you have a future in investigative journalism ... so long as the Institute of Religion & Law and lorry driving isn't taking up too much of your time and efforts .... or can we expect another "On The Road" ?

Cheers,

Neil

 

Hey, Neil!

Adding my 2 cents, I would think that, given the constant defense required of the Century degree and the still-questionable status of MIGS, it would be a no-contest decision to pursue your degree through the UK-Australian consortium, assuming, of course, that whomever is actually issuing the degree is a legitimate, GAAP-qualifying school *not* located in St. Kitts or Nevis.

The DETC thing is interesting, in that DETC does not accredit (nor, as far as I know, permit) doctoral programs except in very unusual circumstances.

I think that MIGS can be thought of as a notch or two below Northcentral. It's definitely, in my book, a gamble. As Peter French so eloquently put it somewhere, at the end of it all, you end up with a second-rate degree from a no-name Mexican school that has never issued doctorates. And given that you already have the Century baggage, I think it would make much more sense (even given the additional work required) to pursue a degree that won't have the stigma that MIGS currently has... and that, I suspect, they will have difficulty living down.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Since you're in the UAE, have you looked into Madurai-Kamaraj University? They have an office in Dubai and accept students from the region.


Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

Results like that would seem to indicate that graduate satisfaction was irrelevant or maybe something like frauds go through a state of euphoria when they think they've pulled a fast one.

It sounds like a few degree mill con-artists are going to love your study so much they will use it in a slim campaign or two.

 

With many grunts and groans, I'm going to try to pull this thread back onto topic....that is Century University. Since Neil Hynd appears to be the only Century graduate/apoligist on this list, I'll address these questions to him, but please, anyone is welcome to jump in.

I have just a few questions;

1) Is Century University accredited by any agency recognized by either the US Department of Education or CHEA?

2) If the above answer is "no", then does Century University satisfy the GAAP standards set out in "Bears' Guide"?

3) If Questions 1 & 2 are answered "no", then why should anyone pursue a Century University degree?

Bruce

 

Can I add a #4? Why is so much of the faculty "home-grown"? I know that this used to be quite common, but definitely is less so today. According to their website, 11 out of the 23 listed received their doctorates from Century. Using anybody's math, that's quite outside the norm.


Tom Nixon

 

Can I jump in too?

Two words that came to my mind were ignorance and stubborness. And to a great extent, they are demonstrated in Neil's conveniently available website at:
http://www.bfranklin.edu/hubs/gulf/coord/webnfiss.htm

Neil: "California's Bureau of PPVE legislation is managed by the Department of Consumer Affairs, and implements controls just as DEMANDING as any other educational quality assurance or federally-recognised accreditation authority"

I won't get into that, since Bear writes that Century was booted out of CA long ago.

Consider the following:

Neil: "...New Mexico's Commission of Higher Education which combines a well-documented state license with consumer protection to ensure that students of PPVE institutes in that state receive suitable and fair treatment, and a valid qualification..."

and,

Neil: "It also means that each State Legislature is the Competent authority in that state for Education."

Competent??? Certainly not New Mexico as suggested by many before.

Enough said. Here, we have a CU grad who is constantly trying to legitimize his credential, to justify his experience with a degree mill, and to put others at risk. Yes, he does mention that accreditation is the no.1 choice, but, putting such a heavy emphasis on the "limited usefulness of recognized accreditation"(which is of course not true!) is very misleading. In fact, he writes like the degree-mill brochures since he brags about the usefulness of CU's state licence while emphasizing that recognized accreditation is useful in Federal grants only.

Knowing that many people from Asia longs to obtain American degrees, his webpage is so misleading to those of us who aren't familiar with the accreditation issues in US education( and not to mention the confusion of the foreigners).

Neil: "Accreditation does not provide automatic acceptance by an institution of credit earned at another institution, nor does it give assurance of acceptance of graduates by employers."

Misleading rubbish. It's common sensical that some RA courses will not be transferrable to another RA school. This is simply a very general limitation demonstrating that the registrar or the admission staff have the final right to accept, or to reject courses transferring in from other schools. Rather, he should state that the CU courses, for example, have almost a 0% chance in transferring to other RA institutions. Clearly, RA's the way to go.

And if I remembered right from AED, I suggest that Neil should stop stubbornly comparing the government-monitored schools (like the royal chartered schools)with the State-approved schools. You're comparing apples and oranges. Nevermind the federal grants and stuff. Nevermind you like recognized accreditation or not, it's certainly the "dummy proof" route. Who in the world is absolutely "certain" on his/her present and future needs? I assert that Neil probably never thought about how famous he grew today in degreeinfo.com, and his solution to that is to simply mask his alma mater in all of his webpages.

Besides, with RA schools or even the more respected unaccredited schools out there, why CU?

To sum up, Neil's website is probably only useful to those who have an unaccredited degree from places like New Mexico. And for those who don't mind defending to their employers their CU credentials for half their interview,(or friends, mother-in-law, your wife or husband), Neil's site maybe somewhat helpful.

my 2-cents

Byran, who was happy to see the ever helpful resources like degreeinfo.com and Steve's NIFI principles, but was immediately disappointed upon discovering the trashing of the usefulness of recognized accreditation at Neil's page.

 

It's not irrelevant when studying the dynamics of nontraditional higher education. I would agree that it is not the only issue, however, and does not necessarily say anything about the quality of the institution or its programs. But to ignore consumer satisifaction when in the business of delivering degree programs to consumers is bad business.

The literature is filled with papers, studies, articles, etc., about evaluating the quality of distance education. But little has been written about whether or not these degrees are marketable. Yet, that seems to generate one big argument after another on fora such as this.

To suppose my study will be mis-used by the bad schools and operators out there is to acknowledge a lack of knowledge about the history of this field. Of course it will! The only other major study to look at the marketability of nontraditional degrees took place 23 years ago (Carol Sosdian and Laurie Sharp), and was focused on associate and bachelor's degrees from accredited schools (and candidates). That didn't stop a lot of bad schools from extrapolating those results to demonstrate that nontraditional higher education in all forms (especially unaccredited, graduate programs, which were not included in the study) was beneficial. This went on for years and years. But ignoring the marketability of these degrees is naive.

Rich Douglas

 

Because many, many people meet their personal and professional needs with a Century degree. This says nothing about the quality of education or credential offered by Century. Sadly, it says much about the ignorance of these issues in society and industry. The fact is, almost no one--even in traditional and nontraditional higher education--hears about or reads what goes on here.

Rich Douglas