Cal Coast to begin three doctoral programs

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by JWC, Jan 16, 2010.

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  1. raristud

    raristud Member

    The other comparables are: online RA and RA with professional accreditation, degree mills and state approved schools, State of Oregon and California, Chicago and New York Style Pizzas, Bloods and Crips, bulls and the bears....dems and reps..ok that's enough. :D I think both sides make the same arguments and have made similar ones in other threads on this board for many years. At the end of the day, it is the consumer who will make the final choice and discover if his or her employer accepts the degree or not. I think Rich has made valid points and I want to see DETC rise to the level of recognition that RA schools have.

    These DETC and RA discussions are like politicians debating and campaigning for votes. Some are full of shit others make interesting and at times valid points. Hell I've said things that are full of shit. At the end of the day, we post some more, make peace, and post actual useful information for those looking to get out of their current situation. This makes it worthwhile.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2010
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    We agree.

    Fixated? I've posted to this board almost 8,000 times on an extremely wide range of topics. Again you use inflammatory language in place of fact-based assertions.
    But nothing unique, and very little that is noteworthy. There is no compelling reason--save in a few niches--about pursuing a degree from one of these schools. The same degrees can be found in many RA universities.
    Really? Then why is the policy of hundreds (thousands?) of tertiary institutions not to accept degrees from NA schools?
    Because it's true and many people are in real denial about it. Glad to see you're not.
     
  3. raristud

    raristud Member

    I'm interested in their Ed.D program in Educational Psychology as well. I'll definitely contact them to get more information. Thanks for the info.
     
  4. JWC

    JWC New Member

    You're welcome.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2018
  5. AviTerra

    AviTerra New Member

    There’s a big difference between hundreds and thousands. I doubt you can find thousands of schools that specifically mention “RA degrees only.”

    At the same time, how many schools out there that will not consider an RA-online-for-profit degree; if not by policy, than by practice? So practically speaking, the difference between the two may not be as great as you make it out to be.

    You ask what DETC schools have added? Let me ask you what great research has come out of schools like UOP? The DETC is doing education a great service by increasing, choice, competition and ultimately quality.

    You say that I use inflammatory language (I disagree with that), but my point is that I cannot help noticing that each and every time anything to do with a DETC school is mentioned, you inevitably keep rehashing the same line. Therefore, I believe that it’s you who’s being inflammatory.
     
  6. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Uh oh! He's catching up to me! Better get cracking! :D
     
  7. Pshaw... on Yahoo Answers there are people who have posted upwards of 200,000 times. No exaggeration.
     
  8. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

    Well, let's see how fast we can knock these off!!

    Graymatter!
    I'm laughing even harder than you! Imagine, RA schools paying out $ 50,000 in Athletic Scholarships to questionable students just so their "school" can win a few games!!!!! No DETC school can do that, I mean $ 50,000 bucks to get the right "student", ER, athlete, no, student, for their school, not going to happen at DETC, chalk one up for RA!!!

    Emmsee,
    I drew my references from "anecdotal" evidence and "personal" data that I've read, like Richard. Seems, from my experience, and many others, some RA schools don't have ANY standards when it comes to DL. You must have taken numerous DL classes from those RA schools and found many of those same programs to be sorely sub-par, when compared to any form of education you have ever had in your life, right? Well, zero DL related accreditation results in some terrible RA DL programs I'm afraid.

    Randall1234,
    I'm using the exact same anecdotal evidence, personal data and lack of references that my esteemed colleague Richard is using. I've read about it, talked to 100's, or 1,000's, of students, and know firsthand from my own experiences. There are some terrible DL programs out there that many choose to sweep under the rug, BECAUSE, they are from RA schools???

    raristud,
    DETC schools "do offer DL programs" and it doesn't matter if it implies anything, there are programs at RA schools that are terrible in every way thus negating the value of their DL related accreditation. How can you tell me that all RA schools are better than all DETC schools when some of them pump out crap? Too many generalizations in this thread.

    Richard,
    This is not "uninformed", it is reality, there are some RA schools out there with terrible DL programs, they suck, anecdotal or not, they plain suck. How does RA related accreditation account for that?

    DETC schools are a pure play, not closely guarded institutions that let their DL programs go to hell and still preach to the community that RA is better. Accreditation not stopping these programs in their tracks, it is covering them up. The fact that you have asked the question, "Can anyone point out any meaningful differences between DETC and RA in terms of ......" leads me to seriously wonder if you haven't lost touch with education today. There is a lack of knowledge in this question that negates the usefulness of the debate. You need to understand the process of DL evolution in RA schools to appreciate my argument.

    As for the facts, I have read like you, talked to others like you and claim anecdotal reasoning like you, ... therefore, need I have to provide more than you? Climb off that proverbial horse my friend, if you haven't taken 100 DL courses from 8 RA schools, don't pretend you have all the answers.

    Before you pat yourself on the back AGAIN, think about how little reference you provide on this topic, nothing there but historical conjecture from the past. At least I have some firsthand experience to hang my hat upon Richard. You did provide a list of schools that provide DL courses, that's good, how many RA schools of mixed programming would you say pump out DL garbage under the cloak of accreditation? Don't guess, I need references for that answer! (Just kidding.)

    bmills072200,
    Original thoughts only please, we have read Richard's posts, some of us, all 8,000 of them! (Just a little humour while we wait for a response, cue the music.)

    My point here is that none of you are qualified to pass judgment on the value of DETC schools and their role in education today. You can't provide us with a simple answer/response/reason as to way RA schools are allowed to pump out DL garbage and then claim to be worth more to society than a DETC education. No blanket statement by pro RA pundits will justify this fact.

    Gotta go, Ted Heiks is setting milestones for Richard to obtain, I'll need my rest ...... 8,000 posts, WOW! Cheers!
     
  9. emmzee

    emmzee New Member

    Besides getting my moniker wrong, your reply to me didn't seem to address what I said ... so I'll just reply to the part quoted above.

    If I understand it, your argument is that because a small percentage of RA schools are not considered particularly great (ex, UofP, Devry, etc) that means that all DETC schools are superior to RA schools for distance education? Because that doesn't seem very convincing to me, and it doesn't seem like you've convinced anyone else here so far ...

    Even if it's true that some RA schools "pump out DL garbage" I'm sure some DETC schools do the same. So I don't think you're proving what you're trying to prove. Maybe if someone did some research, and asked potential employers and academics if they would be more likely to accept a person who had an equivalent degree from, say, UofP, compared to, say, California Coast, we would have some actual data and not need to throw around invectives like calling schools "garbage"?
     
  10. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    While the shotgun approach was impressive, you still did not answer the question, How do you know others are "lacking in quality and governance"? This is one of those "because I said so" answers.

    While I have not taken 100 DL courses, I have taken 67 from 8 schools (38 RA courses from 7 RA schools). So I would not pretend to know the answers but I think I have some....;)

    I am not saying one is better or worst then the other. I just can't understand how the fact that you feel DETC has value (which I agree) equals RA schools "pump out garbage". Should all DL students only go to DETC schools and all on campus students only go to RA schools??
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    I know, and I barely have a lousy damned 10,000 points over at yahoo answers!
     
  12. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    lol .......
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    1. Not all RA schools are equal some are better then others.

    Some let you test out for the quick degree.

    2. Not all DETC schools are equal some are better then others.

    RA is the most accepted for of accreditation, NA is yang and still making it way.
    DETC made nice advancement from accrediting vocational diploma courses to accrediting Doctorates.

    Depends on industry and discipline as mentioned earlier for licensing and other fields it is required RA degree with PA.

    Bridge universities such as WGU, APU do exist, these make it possible for AAS, AS or BS DETC accredited degree holder to go and earn RA Masters degree.

    Interesting combination, I'm not sure how would Employer or University look at such combination when they make hiring decisions.

    Lets not forget that the for profits RA, NA are not as valuable as some will argue.

    In the end its Education + Training + Experience that make the professional.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    If I am not mistaken, it is you who caught up with me. I doubt seriously I'll ever retake that lead.
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The only reason why there is any "debate" on this topic is that DETC advocates continue to argue without facts a point they have a personal interest in.

    I don't have a dog in this hunt; I just hate the lies.

    DETC may or may not do what it does well. It may or may not be worthy of consideration and recognition comparable to the RAs. But it isn't, and complaining about that fact--or people who point it out--doesn't change things.

    Perhaps this will be different in the future.

    Sorry.
     
  16. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    It was just a light-hearted joke, Rich. Anybody who knows anything about the history of distance learning discussion boards knows that the only reason I ever became champion poster here was because the truly great ones like Dr. Rich Douglas, Dr. John Bear, Dr. Jimmy Clifton, Dr. Uncle Janko, and Jack Tracey all seceded from the union and went over to degreediscussion.com. Anybody who knows anything about the history of distance learning discussion boards knows that Dr. Rich Douglas has his doctorate in non-traditional higher education and Ted Heiks does not have any doctorates. You are far greater than I, sir.
     
  17. telefax

    telefax New Member

    In principle, accreditation isn’t the issue, it’s the individual schools. In reality, the individual schools that make up the DETC world won’t help open doors to academia at this point. Any school of any kind of accreditation that can’t prepare their graduates to field the below questions successfully will not prepare them well to obtain jobs in academia.
    Questions you should have good answers to:

    1) Who supervised your doctoral research, and are they a leading expert in that field? Did you apply there to study under that supervisor, or because it was convenient?

    2) What kind of research have you established expertise in, and does it prepare you to teach/research in an area they need? In this they’ll look at both your doctoral thesis, as well as peer-reviewed journals.

    3) Based on its track record of producing leading research and placing other doctoral grads into academia, will your alma mater’s reputation help or hurt the department when it shows up in their catalog? ​

    Not all RA schools, but certainly the better ones have established a good track record of providing this, which is why regional accreditation status (in the US) is used somewhat imperfectly as shorthand for “it’s a good school.” Anyone serious about pursuing a career as a full-time university professor should skip asking current students or admissions counselors from the prospective school. Take the time to ask the department chair of the school they’re considering attending to respond to these issues. You might also consider asking schools you desire to teach at what they think of your prospective doctoral program. I would strongly recommend doing this regardless of who accredits the school.
     
  18. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

    emmZee,

    Sorry, with my cat on the lap, typing after midnight in the dark, I missed the correct key by 1/8", oops!

    I didn't address your comments directly because they weren't my words that you quoted. As follows:

    emmzee states:
    Why is this necessarily the case? {{You're saying that a DETC school with hardly any faculty with degrees beyond the master's level and lower standards than a RA school (etc etc) }}
    No, you are saying that, at no point in my response did I suggest this was the case.

    {{ necessarily still provides better DL education than, say, Harvard Extension? }}
    I'll respond to this as it is fairy easy to initiate. Harvard, Yale, Oxford, does it matter which one you choose? If Harvard offers a course, and that course is outside the norm, and, it is poorly constructed such that over 90% of the students bring it to the attention of the administration, and, nothing is done about it. How can you say that a well rounded DETC course offering is inferior? You can't. Such is the case, there are RA schools of very high standards out there, who offer some of the worst DL offerings on the planet. My question is, did accreditation protect students from this sub-par standard? The answer is clearly no. Now I don't know if Harvard has any courses like this description but I do know that certain other schools do.

    {{ That is as ridiculous as saying that all DETC degrees are inferior to RA ones. }}
    Your words not mine and the analogy doesn't fit anything in this thread.

    {{ I'm not saying that ALL DETC schools are lacking in good faculty or have lower standards, but I don't see what makes a DETC school better by definition than a RA school offering distance programs? }}
    It is difficult to have an in depth debate at this level on a BB, but my theme here is that blanket statements defining DETC versus RA aren't not within the realm of our qualifications. No one here is qualified to draw those conclusions and certainly no one here is providing evidence at any level to support their comments. The thin edge of the wedge tells me that if some prominent RA's are offering grossly sub-par DL courses under the protection of their accreditation, we have a problem. This opens the door to one believing that the experts in DL might be those who live and die by DL. A simple extension of the fact that some RA schools are suspect at best when it comes to their DL delivery process.

    My first degree, like you, is from the U of Guelph, a highly respected school. Take a moment to review some of their DL offerings, it is a humbling experience I'm sure.
     
  19. ITJD

    ITJD Guest

    This is a wonderful conversation.

    Without trying to change the topic at all or cause additional strife that either causes keys to be typed frantically or household pets to lose their nap spots, I offer the following:

    If you know that credits won't transfer from a DETC school to other schools but RA credits will likely transfer to other schools....

    If you know that there's a purpose to advanced degrees in your field that are only guaranteed to be met by going to certain schools....

    If you know that you're not getting access to the things a degree should get you access to because of a school not being regionally accredited.. and you're paying the same amount, if not more to go to your school..

    There's a problem. Now that problem may not be due to the quality of the program in comparison to other programs. It does speak to the program you're in not meeting the standards that give you access to the stuff you don't have access to.

    Your classes may be just as good. They just aren't recognized to be as good. Perception is reality. Who's responsible?

    The faculty and staff of the school are responsible for not going through the motions to offer that higher level of recognition to their students. This is an organizational behavior model. If we're all responsible for failure, no one person can be blamed :)

    So at what point does having lesser recognition reflect on lesser programs? I'd gather that at some point, the group inefficiency that prohibits higher accreditation eventually flows down to quality of staff and as such quality of program.

    It won't mean that every class is lesser, or every instructor. There are no absolutes. But as a system, you are what you are. If you were good enough to be accredited to a certain standard, you would be. If you're not it's an indictment of the staff of the school, whatever it means overall.

    Like it or not, that's just the way it is. At some point, adults need to be responsible and choose a good program that's right for them. At its core, I think that the arguments about accreditation one way or the other aren't about what programs are really better, they're about people being angsty and needing to defend their lack of good decision making or being defensive because they need to protect their income source.

    Real, solid students and faculty who make good decisions don't argue the accreditation points. If they make mistakes, they earn good educations from schools with the right accreditations to meet their goals (thus fixing mistakes). Most don't make them to begin with.
     
  20. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Precisely.

    This whole thread (iteration #579 of the endless RA vs. DETC wars) seems conceptually confused to me. When it comes to competitive academic and research hiring, the fact that Cal Coast is accredited by DETC isn't really the important thing. The real substantial issue is Cal Coast's scholarly profile and academic reputation in the subject of the doctoral degrees.

    A university department will be hiring somebody who can teach a particular block of classes in some specialty area. The new hire might need to be able to advise graduate students and supervise research. The department will likely be looking to raise its own reputation in the specialty of interest and will be seeking somebody with an established reputation or who shows promise of being a rising star.

    A tech firm or government laboratory will already be conducting research and will have encountered very advanced and highly technical problems. They will be seeking somebody who can productively address those matters at the highest level (whether it's active transport across cell membranes or advanced autonomous aircraft controls for UAVs). Employers will outline their research challenges and inquire pointedly into the candidate's previous experience, background and general theoretical approach to those issues.

    In both cases, interviewers will probably already be familiar with the school and the department that awarded the candidate's doctorate, at least by reputation. They will have encountered the institutional affiliation in the literature.

    My own belief is that if a university can stand up to that kind of scrutiny and shine brightly, then it doesn't matter a whole lot whether it's US or foreign, or whether it's RA or non-RA. If the university can't, then being RA instead of DETC won't help, any more than merely having Dept. of Education recognized accreditation or being 'GAAP' will. Those aren't the significant variables up at the doctoral level. The applicant still won't be competitive.
     

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