Bush / Kerry / Nader

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Veteran101, May 19, 2004.

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  1. Re: Response to one of Carl's postings herein...

    I'll respond to you by saying first off that there is nothing on your part to be forgiven for, you are free to express your opinion and I respect you for that (and the others here who do the same).

    As for considering your own logic, as a "liberal" I am by nature quite open-minded to other views, am intent on seeking the truth in all matters, and therefore have not resolved my own moral position on this issue since there are clearly two sides to it. I'm also simply stating in some of my arguments the liberal point of view (which could be seen negatively as "the party line"), but in this case one that apparently still has the force of US law behind it (i.e., Rowe vs. Wade). Which is far more clear, for example, than debates about whether Kerry or Bush are truly "good men".
     
  2. VB1

    VB1 New Member

    abortion / Bush v. Kerry / Republicans v. Democrats

    "have not resolved my own moral position on this issue"

    Carl, I respect you for admitting, as so few commentators from either party seem to have the ability to do, your lack of internal resolution on the topic. As someone who has quite a bit of knowledge and education, both formal & informal, in economics, I am unresolved on the free trade issue. This stems from the fact that, although I have traditionally been a proponent of free trade, given that the "cost of living index" is so varied from one country to another, it is truly hard to argue against either...

    1. American business management for doing as it is held to task by its owners (shareholders) and directors (also management's superiors) and seeking a legitimate profit (no "cracks" please re: legitimacy, for as you pointed out, when an action has the support of law as does corporate outsourcing, it is indeed legitimate) as this is precisely what built our fine nation into the world's true, sole, economic superpower.

    Or...

    2. The American worker who (apart from his union which has "sold him out" via unfair contract demands with all risk falling on management) is in a tough spot also.

    ...But I digress. Carl, when deciding between the parties in any national election, I offer this extremely simplified, yet entirely plausible not to mention obviously cogent, method: If one wants to trust the federal government to have a power base so great that it would represent a nightmare in the minds of our forefathers (No, wait, that was "spinning". Let me try again.)

    If one wants to trust the Federal government to possess and distribute absolute power over all things social, fiscal, religious, and even individual, then that person should vote "Democrat".

    If, on the other hand, a person is in favor of, if possible, reducing the power of the Federal government, returning power to the states, leaving money in the hands of those who earn it, and allowing all citizens to take responsibility for their well-being, then that person should vote "Republican".

    Vince

    PS Please do not try to claim, as you suggested, that liberals have a market on open-mindedness. I would have to say that most liberals (apparently not you, and kudos to you for this) apparently think that the 1st Amendment applies only to them.
     
  3. VB1

    VB1 New Member

    "You mean American babies. Which makes sense, because as we all know God is a white-protestant American who hates Muslims. I believe he vacations in Texas to boot."

    Plumbdog10,

    Don't be a jerk. Even someone possessed of your level of hostility doesn't believe that I suggested what you implied above.

    Vince

    PS If you have trouble with any of the words in this posting just let me know. I'll be happy to do as your parents should have and hire you a tutor.

    PPS I might get angry, Plumbdog10, when anybody suggests that our president is a baby killer, but I do truly wish you the best.

    PPPS By the way, do you feel that Clinton and Kerry are baby killers? You know, Clinton lobbed a few bombs into Iraq, and Kerry argued for it, not to mention he is proud of telling us even now that he voted for this war. What about FDR & Truman? Was WWII about baby killing?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2004
  4. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Abortion is murder; re-elect Bush

    Roe v. Wade was one of the worst Sup Ct rulings in the history of our great country. Justice Blackmun, a republican appointee, should be ashamed for authoring the horrid judicial opinion. He is a disgrace the political party that appointed him to several courts. But, he is even more of a disgrace for giving women an excuse to kill. Blackmun is dead now, but wherever he is, I hope the babies that died legally via abortion at the hands of their own evil mothers forgive him.

    Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973) can be read in full by clicking here: members.aol.com/abtrbng/410b1.htm

    Abortion is nothing more than violent pre-meditated baby murder via chop and mince skirt devil vacuum. It must be outlawed. Babies are not choices. They are no less alive when within the womb than they are outside of it. A fetus is a baby -- alive with a heartbeat -- in the womb of his or her mother. We must protect this innocent life at all costs! We must not allow mothers to drain innocent life from their bodies all in the name of privacy and choice. Women have choices; to engage in procreative activity will full knowledge of the risks, or to abstain.

    Life begins at conception. And once there is conception, women no longer have the right to choose. They have already chosen. At this point, more than just their own bodies at stake. We constantly hear liberals preaching equal protection. I say we make them practice what they preach. Babies deserve of equal protection also, don't they? Other liberals argue that safe and legal abortions are necessary to avoid a dangerous black market. I say, who cares? Not me!! If women choose to put themselves in danger, only so that they can commit premeditated homicide, oh well. No sympathy here if they suffer adverse effects.

    Not only do I hope that baby murder is made illegal, I hope that violators are charged with capital murder, and if convicted, punished accordingly. Instead utilizing the gas chamber, we could put them in vacuum chambers, wherein they are sucked violently into red death bags and thrown out like garbage. After all, isn't this what they would have wanted to do with the life residing within their own bodies. If given the opportunity, the greatest president in wonderful history -- George W. Bush -- will appoint conservative Sup Ct justices with the marbles needed to overturn the tragic decision known as Roe v. Wade.

    There are other reasons to vote republican:
    If you want to keep your gun rights; if you want there to be a flat tax (equal protection), and if you want the discrimination known as affirmative action outlawed, vote republican. Most importantly, though, if you support distance learning, vote republican in November. See Rep Howard McKeon's (R-CA) higher ed proposal by following this link: http://mckeon.house.gov/Issues/Issue/?IssueID=174 -- Pay close attention to the credit transfer provision. If his proposal passes, the NA vs. RA arguments will finally be put to rest.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2004
  5. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    As a "pro-life" cleric--with a gimlet eye--was that a parody, an agent provocateur, or just extremism? It sounds suspiciously like what some folks wish we said so that they could be horrified by it.

    The fact that we already have a poster called "Bush04" makes me wonder about a new poster "Busho4".

    His comment "the greatest president in wonderful history George W. Bush" makes me wonder, too, but in a different way.

    Just wondering a lot, that's all.:rolleyes:
     
  6. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Big words, small mind??

    I meant everything that I said. I admit that I am an extreme conservative, but my statement reflects my true and honest beliefs. I am most definitely a Bush supporter, and hope that he is re-elected in 2004, hence the name Bush04. I have no idea why my name appears as Busho4.

    Also, JankOhh, one of the first things we learned in law school was to not over use big words. We were taught that such overuse is counterproductive and indicative of a small mind. Who are you trying to impress? Just wondering, that's all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2004
  7. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    Relax. The only credential necessary to understand what's been happening with the Ivies is the ability to read. The Ivies' problems with grade inflation are well documented. Princeton and Harvard have recently initiated efforts to curb grade inflation. Children of wealthy alumni have a long history of favorable treatment in these institutions. Bush most definitely benefited from this. This is also well documented.

    I have fairly close friends who are graduates of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Having spent my academic career as an undergrad and graduate student at a public ivy, I also know the way graduate schools work. Generally speaking, students aren't flunked out of grad school, especially professional schools (like HBS), where the student is paying big $$ to attend. Grad students are expected to be better than most. At least in my grad school experience, the vast majority of grades were A's and B's. C's were understood to be representative of impossible-to-ignore mediocrity.

    So what do you want me to say? Bush's academic career is universally regarded as mediocre. Even he admits this - and he joked about it when he addressed Yale students a couple of years ago.

    I'm glad that Bruce has first hand experience with Kerry that shapes his opinion. Pardon me if I don't regard some smirks and overheard infighting as conclusive evidence that he's one of the most arrogant and condescending persons on the face of the earth. Nevertheless, Bruce is certainly entitled to his opinion, and I can't know how I might feel if I had been in his place instead.

    And no I don't drive a big car - rather my main vehicle is 19lbs of some of Italy's finest chrome moly steel. Sorry to disappoint.
     
  8. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Big words, small mind??

    Because you registered again. They don't like that in these parts.
     
  9. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Registered again??

    I registered one time, and one time only. I still have the email Degreeinfo sent acknowledging my registration as Bush04. Again, I have absolutely no idea why my name appears as Busho4. Maybe someone here is up to something?? Either way, I could care less what discussion board posters "in these parts" like or dislike.

    Janko, if you have time, please tell me what, if anything, about my initial post you disagree with. I know you love to hear yourself talk and watch yourself type, but try to reply using modern everyday english. This is a discussion board, not an analyzing literature exam.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2004
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    That's not what I said. I said he is the most arrogant & condescending person I have ever dealt with.

    As I mentioned before, almost everyone who's had dealings with the man says he's a pompous jerk. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
     
  11. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Registered again??

    If you knew anything about my political leanings, you'd realize how asinine that statement is. In any case, I resent the implication.

    Also, please watch the personal attacks. Everyone gets one freebie from me, and this is yours.
     
  12. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Freebies and what not

    Bruce, please see my PM. When I initially tried to post a follow up, it said that I was not permitted to access this page.
     
  13. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    To Carl and some other "pro-choice" posters: I am appalled by the rage expressed by some ostensible "pro-life" posters. I won't apologize for it since I don't engage in it, but I'd ask you not to see it as universal among those who are opposed to large-scale legalized abortion.

    Do I think you are wrong in your view favoring legalized abortion? Yes, very strongly so. Perhaps you should know also that one of the reasons we Gnesios absolutely do NOT participate in so-called prolife organizations except the one within our church fellowship is our belief that prolifers, so-called, who resort to violence of word--a violence on rare occasions concordant with violent action--are unscriptural in so doing. Inciting hatred in the name of compassion is not a theologically correct preaching of the Law in any of its three uses, as my own group's jargon would put it. It's also sin, and sin leads to death, and that's not "pro-life".

    Would I be deeply gratified to hear that you changed your views on the abortion issue? Sure. (I'm the only person I know personally whose views actually have changed over the years. Most folks are pretty well set, for good or ill.) But my interest in seeing your views change does not override my respect for you. Why should it?

    Cordially, Janko Carpathicus
     
  14. Casey

    Casey New Member

    I express outrage, not rage, Janko. The emotionally charged words I use help to expose abortion for what it is. It is premeditated baby homicide. It is the taking of innocent life. It is the killing of a helpless human beings. It is mothers murdering the children of their wombs. Don't you agree?? Pro-Baby Killers try to use PC terminology such as pro-choice, viable fetus, uterus, etc. in an effort to desensitize us.

    When someone murders an infant, Janko, what do we do with them? We charge them with murder! And if we convict them, we punish them accordingly. That is precisely what we should do with those who drain human life from their bodies, because life begins at conception, not birth.

    Abortion is just plain wrong, and I am outraged that such a horrid act is actually legal in the greatest country on earth. How you can be so calm about it is beyond me? Just the thought of the act of abortion saddens me. Seeing pictures of abortion vacuums with red bio-hazard bags attached, sickens me.
     
  15. tomC

    tomC New Member

    Bush / Kerry / Nader

    To better understand the difference between Bush, Kerry and Nader I would pose this question to each and study their responce.

    Question: You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife and charges.
    Your carrying a Glock 40 and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.

    WHAT DO YOU DO?

    Kerry's answer:

    Well thats not enough information to answer the question.

    Have I ever done anything to make this man angry?

    I can't remember, am I for gun control or against gun control?

    Maybe we can just run away and hide until he's gone.

    I just need more time to think this over!


    Naders answer:

    I'm for gun control.

    Does the glock have appropriate safety built into it?

    I'd call 9-1-1


    Bush's answer:

    BANG BANG BANG.

    Next Question.
     
  16. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Next question: If you're an expert shot, why three BANGs?
     
  17. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Because abortion is murder, plain and simple. Supporting abortion, or respecting anyone who does, is essentially aupporting the killing of babies.

    I try not to surround myself with pro-abortion advocates. And anyone who supports abortion gets absolutely no respect from me. It's murder, and its wrong.
     
  18. tomC

    tomC New Member

    Not sure he needed all three, but you have to admitt he grouped them well.

    Besides I'm just trying to support Bruces opinion. Get them Bruce.

    How many more post's do I need to become a senior member?

    TomC: ;)
     
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    TomC: Yeah, OK.
    Me too.
    Welcome aboard.
     
  20. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Contrary to popular belief, it's very common for people to be shot multiple times and not go down. A person on PCP in California was shot 33 times by police with 9mm's before he gave up.

    Many years ago, my partner & I let loose 12 rounds at a pit bull that attacked us. It was still trying to get to us when I finished it off with a headshot (we were still carrying the wimpy .38 Special revolvers back then).
     

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