Bush / Kerry / Nader

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Veteran101, May 19, 2004.

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  1. Ike

    Ike New Member

     
  2. Ike

    Ike New Member



    First off, I am not a weapon expert but I think that the chemicals are mustard gas and ricin. If you need more specifics, please consult an expert.

    It is a known fact that Russia and other western countries also supplied weapons to Iraq. The 60 minutes story in question focused on US roles in Iraq and the region. What else do you want to know?

    Hey man, you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.
     
  3. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    I don't know what your latest non-reply is supposed to mean but the following is the closest to your charge that will likely be found:

    "Congressional investigations after the Gulf War revealed that the Commerce Department had licensed sales of biological agents, including anthrax, and insecticides, which could be used in chemical weapons, to Iraq. "

    CBS

    It should be noted that it is not unusually to sell insecticides (why even mention that?) or anthrax to governments. Both are available from other sources and can be developed locally.

    Here is another:

    "...facilitating Iraq's acquisition of chemical and biological precursors..."

    If that's the worst that freaking worldrevolution.org
    can come up with then there's nothing there. "Precursors" to chemical and biological weapons are in my kitchen.

    --------------------------------------------------

    Okay, you gave a reply as I was composing mine.

    But this is not about what I "want to believe." It is about facts and about evidence and about reality.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2004
  4. Ike

    Ike New Member

    Somebody is impatient. You didn't read my response.
     
  5. Tireman4

    Tireman4 member

    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    We are on the same side here. Vote for whoever you choose. If choose not to vote, you have still made a choice. Remember this as the months go by.
     
  6. Ike

    Ike New Member

    Four years ago, I voted for a compassionate conservative candidate (W.) but come November this year, I may not vote at all and if I choose to vote, my brain rather than my heart will decide whom to vote for.
     
  7. Splas

    Splas New Member

    To me, Kerry does not seem genuine, he seems phony and plyable.

    I haven't lived very long (early 20's), but even I can pick out someone as fake as Sen. Kerry. What does he really stand for? It seems to me he stands for whatever will make him popular with enough people to get elected (just like Sen. McCaine). I would rather have someone that knows what he wants/believes, will do it, and say to heck with what people think about it. Thats what I think of when I think of a leader.

    Bush seems like he actually cares, hes not perfect, but if we only elected perfect people we would be leaderless. I do not agree with Bush on many issues, but when it comes to character President Bush is miles ahead of Sen. Kerry.

    That and I could never and will never vote for a man that would even hint at supporting abortion. It is a most disgraceful tragedy to kill someone who never even had a chance to see the light of day, let alone hurt anyone in anyway.

    So to answer your question shortly, I like Bush better than Kerry :D.
     
  8. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    Re: Re: I'm voting for Kerry

    Jeez what nonsense. You've talked to "most" of the environmentalists in the country, have you? "Most" of them have private jets and multiple vehicles and mansions???:confused:

    Oh, but I forgot, you have also noticed that "most" Democrats are racists and hypocrits etc., while the Republican party has been the champion of Civil Rights.

    I don't know what world you actually live in, but it must be a very strange place indeed. It must also be a very small place, otherwise how could you really know what "most" of the people are doing?
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Re: Re: I'm voting for Kerry

    John Kerry certainly has his fair share of jets, mansions, and big SUV's. He's about as much for the environment as Joseph Hazelwood.
     
  10. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm voting for Kerry

    First, I don't think any true environmentalist would call Kerry an environmentalist. Neither Bush nor Clinton qualify either. Bush certainly qualifies as anti-environment: here

    Second, even if we accept Kerry as pro-environment for the sake of argument, one person hardly qualifies as "most" environmentalists.

    Now if you were to tell me that everyone on the Board of Directors of the Sierra Club rode around in SUV's trampling the environment, and had private jets, then I might listen.

    But to prove your point by pointing out one (count 'em, one) rich person who you ASSUME is an environmentalist based on party affiliation is ridiculous. Maybe your point is that anyone who is rich enough to have a private jet (does Kerry? I don't know) can't address environmental issues without being a hypocrite? I admit that it puts him in a touchy position, but I'd still rather have a president that gave a damn about what's happening to the environment. With Bush we have a president who essentially thumbs his nose at every environmental issue, and who seems to think that global warming is a myth invented by liberals, when in fact there is compelling evidence for it. One gets the impression that Bush ridicules anything he doesn't really understand, instead of finding someone smarter to explain it to him. So with Kerry we get smart but slightly hypocritical, and with Bush we get dumb but honest. I don't know. I'll be happy to quibble about Kerry's jet once I know there's someone in the White House who cares about preserving the Earth for the rest of us and our kids.

    Bush subscribes to what some in the risk management profession informally call the Personal Insignificance Principle. This is the idea that there is nothing unusual about the time in which we live, so all the things we take for granted because they caused no problem in the past, can continue to be ignored in the future ("what the hey, the environment has existed for millions and millions of years, so it'll just keep going."). Managers who subscribe to this view eventually go out of business suddenly and spectacularly. Those damn distributions seem to have fatter tails than we assume. Catastrophes that are only suppossed to happen in someone else's lifetime, seem to happen once or twice in ours.

    Bush seems to apply PIP to the environment; however, when it comes to his ideas about the Middle East, he seems to have quite the opposite view. Here, he seems to have more of a Messiah complex, but that's another sad story.
     
  11. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm voting for Kerry

    No, it's actually the gigolo's wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, that owns the private jet. I'm sure that John has never used it. :rolleyes:

    Here we go again.....someone with a A.B. from Yale University, a M.B.A. from Harvard Business School, and is fluent in two languages is portrayed as "dumb".

    What are your educational credentials, Carl? How many languages do you speak?

    BTW...."slightly hypocritical" doesn't even begin to describe Kerry. He is quite possibly the most arrogant, condescending person I have ever dealt with in my entire life. The runners-up on my list include Ted Kennedy and Alec Baldwin, and that's pretty stiff competition. Kerry beats them, hands-down.

    If John Kerry is elected President, I fear for the survival of the United States. I'm not kidding.
     
  12. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm voting for Kerry

    So my point again (which you didn't address) is that it's silly to imply that "all" or even "most" environmentalists are like Kerry. Moreover, Kerry is probably not what the Sierra Club would call a true environmentalist (although infinitely better than Bush). I think we can end this part of the discussion.

    You're confusing your liberals, here, but no matter.
    Is English one of the two languages? :p Seriously, I wouldn't consider Bush fluent in English. His degrees from Yale and Harvard were gifts. He didn't deserve entrance to those schools, but rather gained entrance based on his father's connections (this perk for the rich also benefits rich Democrats and is equally deplorable.). Moreover, he earned mostly C's at Yale and Harvard, which is tantamount to flunking in schools with notorious reputations for grade inflation. Bonzo the chimp wouldn't actually be flunked out of Yale if Bonzo's dad was George Bush #1.


    This is not the first time you've alluded to Kerry's condescending nature in your dealings with him. Perhaps you'd like to expand on just what this means and in what capacity you worked with him. I'm sure there are a lot of people on this thread who would like to know - me included.
     
  13. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm voting for Kerry

    How much do you want to bet that Kerry will raise the environment during the campaign?



    Pure speculation, of course. I have one question....if Bush's name got him into Yale & Harvard, wouldn't that also get him better grades? You can't have it both ways.....unless you're John Kerry, of course.

    When I first started dating, my mother gave me a very valuable piece of advice....watch how people treat the waitstaff at a restaurant, because that's a look at their true character. I've helped provide security at several events where Kerry has made an appearance, and when he thinks there are no cameras or recorders around, he is both rude and hostile to those around him.

    I was manning a traffic post near a special event, when Kerry's SUV pulled up. The driver was asking where to go, so I gave him directions. Kerry was reading something in the back seat, and I said "Hello, Senator". He glanced up at me, gave a little smirk, and went back to reading.

    At a police funeral, Kerry arrives late. The hearse is pulling up in front of the church, and here is Kerry bounding up the stairs. He joins a bunch of other hacks on the church steps, and then proceeds to have a conversation and yuk it up a bit. As soon as the hearse doors opened, he switches to somber and sad for the cameras.

    Another special event, Kerry's SUV pulls up. I can hear him screaming inside, I don't know if he was on a cell phone or yelling at one of his aides. He steps out, and is instantly smiling widely and waving for the cameras. As he's leaving, I see him finger-pointing at an aide, saying "I don't give a shit about" something.

    At least Ted Kennedy has always given the impression that he's sincere. Kerry can't even fake it.
     
  14. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm voting for Kerry

    You're right. You can't have it both ways. That's why he wasn't given good grades. Schools like Harvard and Yale will allow matriculation for subpar students if they are related to notable alumni. However, as a general rule, professors will not hand out A's or B's to students that don't deserve them. If they do, then the professor may be on the hook for a recommendation or a review of their grades. If they give out D's and F's, then the student flunks, and the professor gets in hot water. Hence the neutral C, which means, "you get your diploma; don't bother me again."

    QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce


    When I first started dating, my mother gave me a very valuable piece of advice....watch how people treat the waitstaff at a restaurant, because that's a look at their true character. I've helped provide security at several events where Kerry has made an appearance, and when he thinks there are no cameras or recorders around, he is both rude and hostile to those around him.

    I was manning a traffic post near a special event, when Kerry's SUV pulled up. The driver was asking where to go, so I gave him directions. Kerry was reading something in the back seat, and I said "Hello, Senator". He glanced up at me, gave a little smirk, and went back to reading.

    At a police funeral, Kerry arrives late. The hearse is pulling up in front of the church, and here is Kerry bounding up the stairs. He joins a bunch of other hacks on the church steps, and then proceeds to have a conversation and yuk it up a bit. As soon as the hearse doors opened, he switches to somber and sad for the cameras.

    Another special event, Kerry's SUV pulls up. I can hear him screaming inside, I don't know if he was on a cell phone or yelling at one of his aides. He steps out, and is instantly smiling widely and waving for the cameras. As he's leaving, I see him finger-pointing at an aide, saying "I don't give a shit about" something.

    At least Ted Kennedy has always given the impression that he's sincere. Kerry can't even fake it.
    [/QUOTE]

    I don't know. Maybe you're onto something, though a lot of that seems like normal political BS - putting on the public face when the camera comes around. But do those situations really qualify as "...quite possibly the most arrogant, condescending person I have ever dealt with in my entire life."? Bush is not immune to similar interpretations. When he was running against Gore, journalists had a hard time finding people from his youth that actually liked him. Apparently he was a real a%@#ole to his "friends". Unfortunately, I think losts of $ does that to a lot of people - to both Democrats and Republicans.
     
  15. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

    In this case, I would have to agree. In my humble opinion I think most politicians are gems. We must first note that a politician, one who receives backing from a party anyway, cannot provide their honest opinion, give their honest answer, and most of all, be real.

    Political BS is rampant in both organizations, today the candidates are third and forth generation old money offspring. It was old money that provided their lifestyle, their promotion, and personality. My old man used to tell me respect is earned not given. Can we honestly say that both Bush and Kerry feel that way. It's is obvious that Kerry is a pompus hiney. The way he treats the secret service agents (ski trip), aides, or anyone who does not agree with his stance on anything.

    12 years ago I was heavily involved with the Republican National Committee, Maryland Chapter. With the location close to Washington, DC. I was able to be apart of many events. One that sticks in my mind to this day was the annual Lincoln dinner in Rockville, Maryland in 1996. I was able to actually dine and share a table with JC Watts and a true conservative by the name of Newt. No press, no cameras, no nothing, but the men and food.
    All I can say is they were two outstanding gentlemen, however, there were others in the ballroom. Lott, Nichols, etc. and many state representatives. Man, ol, man was the air thick. Snooty, self centered, snobs. Nichols I did not have the opportunity to meet, but Lott. Ugh! what a, well, can't find the words. Umm Fake etc, ok.

    The funny thing about the event was being able to be a fly on the wall, listening to commentary, etc. My bad taste with both the Republican and Democratic party began there. Heck, they are all the same. Position, mosition, I was able to hear a 2 hour diatribe and jokes about how they argue on the floor in front of CSpan then meet afterwards and laugh about it. Basically, it makes you wonder if these people are actually concerned about our nation or just entertainers raking in the case for a cushy retirement.

    Are we just pawns on a chess board or puppets being led around on strings by puppetmasters who play a daily game of emotional propaganda? Who knows?
     
  16. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm voting for Kerry

    Right....professors are never pressured into giving good grades to anyone (did someone say athletes?) to keep them academically eligible..... :rolleyes:

    I just gave you three examples that I personally witnessed. I could go on forever with second-hand stories from other cops from when Kerry was an Assistant District Attorney.

    A friend's brother worked for the Texas Rangers when Bush owned them. He told me that Bush was a very genuine, nice person. Very down-to-Earth.

    We can agree on that.
     
  17. VB1

    VB1 New Member

    Oops, wrong thread!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2004
  18. VB1

    VB1 New Member

    Response to one of Carl's postings herein...

    "The pro-choice crowd definitely believes that a woman has a right to decide what goes into, and what comes out of her own body."

    Carl, your comment above makes me wonder why you refuse to consider that perhaps the woman should have exercised her "right to decide what goes into, and what comes out of her own body" at conception, or was she simply enjoying that very process? Anything to avoid responsibility for, or the consequences to, one's actions, huh Carl?

    You know, you are full of highly-reasoned "never miss a tree, just be sure and ignore the forest" logic.

    I aploogize, Carl, for the anger that is evident in this reply, but the taking of a life which God deemed worthy of being born (or we would not have a fetus present) really gets my ire. Perhaps the same thoughtful deliberation in which your "right to choose" (apparently for my unborn baby as well as for myself) women engage should be exercised at the point of conception instead. (Oh, darn! There's that "responsibility" thing again.)

    Vince

    PS Carl, after thinking this all through, I ask your forgiveness for my response. The only reason I am still posting it is that I really hope that you will yourself put your own understandable emotions away (the ability for which I greatly commend you if you are able to accomplish it) and give thought to my own logic.
     
  19. VB1

    VB1 New Member

    Bruce, good series of arguments.

    Tom, just what are your academic credentials that make you the expert on how the Ivies function re: admissions, grades, and connections. You called Bruce's hand on what occasions he's had opportunity (or, more appropriately, punishment) to interact with Kerry, and Bruce was holding a straight-flush; I'm doing the same with you and your far superior intellect. "Let's see 'um, boy! Show me that pair of threes!" (And I don't mean your shoe size, little man. By the way, Tom, on that note I'll bet you just have to drive a big car, don't you?)
     
  20. plumbdog10

    plumbdog10 New Member

     

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