ashworth online college

"One of the things that is pretty important to people at degreeinfo is accuracy and credibility of what's stated." You've made unsupported statements that UNISA is very widely recognized and known, has been providing distance learning opportunities worldwide for decades, and, quite honestly, runs circles around Ashworth, Cal Coast, or pretty much any DETC school in terms of the recognition, quality of programs, acceptability of the degree, and other factors. SUPPORT THIS or admit that you're just another pot calling the kettle black. Or are administrators free to claim whatever they want without any support unlike what they ask of ordinary forum members?

UNISA is "RA equivalent" while DETC is IDENTICAL with RA according to a real authority: Letter from Carol A Griffiths, Chief Accrediting Agency Evaluation Unit, Accreditation and State Liaison, US Department of Education

 

DETC is not identical with RA. If you want to talk in technical terms, DETC carries the same recognition/endorsement WITH THE US DoEd that RA and other accreditors do. However, what's in the real world is not the same as what the DoEd's policy states. Hopefully some day that will not be the case, but for now it is.

UNISA degrees and transfer credits do not have a problem with transfer and acceptability. If you fully understood GAAP and AACRAO and how the registrars at RA schools operate, you'd realize that. At the same time, holders of degrees from DETC schools such as Ashworth, CalCoast and others have a much harder time getting their degrees recognized and accepted by RA schools. The situation has improved over the past 5 or so years in that there are now some RA schools that will directly accept DETC credits and degrees. But it's far from universal acceptance.

Also, as far as respectability, UNISA is considered one of the top schools in South Africa, has a long history of supporting and conducting research, and has quite a number of distinguished alumni. I don't think the same can be said for Cal Coast or Ashworth. I'm not saying that Cal Coast or Ashworth are *bad* schools... only that, compared with a school like UNISA, there really isn't much argument -- if one is looking at the facts -- as to which is the better known school with a degree that is more likely to be widely accepted, both in academia as well as in the working world.

 

See? You merely stated your personal opinion without providing any support at all. I thought you said that it was I who made unsupported statements and you dare reminded me that "One of the things that is pretty important to people at degreeinfo is accuracy and credibility of what's stated." Your personal opinion is just as good as anyone else's unless you are able to,as you have said, support it with accurate and credible evidence. My challenge to you is to prove that "UNISA runs circles around Ashworth, Cal Coast, or pretty much any DETC school in terms of the recognition, quality of programs, acceptability of the degree, and other factors." where is your proof? You have nothing! Where is your credibility? You have nothing! You are unable to satisfy the same requirements that you wish to impose on others.

You are saying that I was wrong to claim that DETC and RA are identical, I did not make that claim. The word "identical" came from Carol A Griffiths, Chief Accrediting Agency Evaluation Unit, Accreditation and State Liaison, US Department of Education, a person who is a billion times more credible than you--an anonymous "moderator" at some Internet discussion board who reprimands ordinary forum posters for allegedly not supporting what they have said (even if they did) yet is completely unable to support his own opinionated and uneducated claims. According to Carol Griffiths: "In order to be recognized by the Secretary, an accrediting agency must demonstrate to the Secretary's satisfaction that it meets the Criteria for Recognition, which are stated in Federal regulation. The Criteria do not differentiate between types of accrediting agencies, so the recognition granted to all types of accrediting agencies-regional, institutional, specialized, and programmatic-is identical." (Carol A. Griffiths)

Now, because you have already glimpsed at the facts due to having been shown the official statement of an AUTHORITY, you are trying to make a fast one by saying that "If you want to talk in technical terms, DETC carries the same recognition/endorsement WITH THE US DoEd that RA and other accreditors do. However, what's in the real world is not the same as what the DoEd's policy states." If they are IDENTICAL in terms of recognition according to the US Department of education, then in what context are they not identical and have we been discussing that context? And if the US Department of Education are saying that they are identical, who are you to say that they are not identical? Your version of "what's in the real world" is just your own personal and, as expected, UNSUPPORTED opinion. In fact, you are the only one making unsupported opinions here.

We have been discussing about recognition all along, and when I said that they are identical, you disagreed. When you have been shown the letter explicitly stating that they are indeed identical, you say "DETC carries the same recognition/endorsement with the US DoEd that RA and other accreditors do (You really want to do away with the word "identical." Sorry, it is there!)," 'but in the real world it doesn't.' Who are you trying to fool and what does that make you? You have lost this argument and managed to shame yourself in the process because your demand for support has backfired. You want to act as a knight in shining armor to Kizmet, but you can't even stand on your own two feet!

Here is a chance to redeem yourself: comply with what you demand of others and SUPPORT the following statement of yours: "UNISA runs circles around Ashworth, Cal Coast, or pretty much any DETC school in terms of the recognition, quality of programs, acceptability of the degree, and other factors." Do that or admit that you are a moron who can't walk his talk and who doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

If you'd bothered to do 1 minute's worth of research on Google, or even to search the DegreeInfo archive, you'd have your answer. I made the perhaps overly generous assumption that you had an actual understanding of accreditation issues, and were aware of research and other factors that are generally recognized and accepted among those in the field. Unfortunately, I guess I was wrong.

The issues surrounding acceptability of transfer credits and recognition of degrees among RA schools came up some years ago (9 or 10, if memory serves me correctly) at an AACRAO meeting. John Bear was there when a group of registrars informally started defining a set of standards that they were all using to determine acceptability of transfer credits and degrees. This became known as GAAP, Generally Accepted Accreditation Principles. Coincident with that discussion, questions arose regarding the level of acceptance among RA school registrars of DETC degrees.

John Bear decided to follow up on that question by doing a small pilot study in which he mailed a random sampling of RA school registrars and asked specifically about acceptance and recognition of DETC school credits and degrees.

Subsequent to that, Rich Douglas expanded on John's original idea, as part of his dissertation research, and did a more detailed study utilizing a carefully designed survey taken by a large number of employers and registrars at RA schools, combined with analysis of data that looked specifically at recognition of unaccredited, DETC accredited, and RA accredited degrees by RA school registrars and among employers.

The results showed that, at the time (research done in 2002, if I remember correctly), acceptance of DETC degrees by RA schools was pretty low; under 50% if I remember correctly.

Rich's dissertation citation is as follows:

The accreditation of degree-granting institutions and its role in the utility of college degrees in the workplace]
by Douglas, Richard Coleman Ph.D., Union Institute and University, 2003, 150 pages; AAT 3093350

As to the respectability of UNISA vs. Cal Coast or Ashworth, again, among anyone familiar with academia, this should be obvious. A simple search among any of the databases of published research, or research grants issued will show that UNISA graduates have been published many times, while I was unable to locate any indication of publication of research in respectable, peer-reviewed journals by anyone doing research at Ashworth or Cal Coast, most likely because those schools are not research institutions.

I would find it difficult to make a plausible argument that a school where students and faculty are actively involved in conducting and publishing research is on par in terms of respectability with schools that are not doing any such research.

We can state that everyone drives 65mph on US highways, because that's the speed limit as well, but it doesn't make it a fact in the real world. My point, which you completely missed, was that, indeed, US DoEd may see DETC and RA schools as identical, as documented in your statement. But if, in the real world, the registrars at RA schools making decisions about whether to recognize credits and degrees at DETC institutions don't recognize them, then a theoretical statement, whether from an official at DoEd, or by the President of the United States, really has no bearing, unless and until there's legal precedent upheld on appeal forcing institutions to provide equal recognition. And I don't see that as ever happening.

I'm guessing you're either choosing to ignore what I'm saying, or simply don't understand what I said. What someone says is the case, and what actually happens in the real world are often completely different. We also have laws making it illegal to discriminate in employment based on sex, among other factors. Yet voluminous studies indicate that there are still significant disparities in salary rates between men and women performing identical jobs. It's illegal, and it should not happen, yet in the real world, it does. It is not illegal for an RA school to "discriminate" against the holder of a DETC degree, and, at least at the time of Rich's dissertation research, some 50% did so consistently, and even more under some circumstances. And that's "real world" data, which is far more useful to someone making a decision about what school to attend than a theoretical statement by an official in the DoEd.

I would disagree. Other than a letter from the DoEd, which I've already addressed, and which is basically somebody's statement with no supporting data, I have not seen any real-world data, studies, or anything else supporting the idea that acceptance of degrees from DoEd-recognized accreditors is equal and uniform. On the contrary, there is voluminous anecdotal data indicating that recognition of degrees from other DoEd-recognized accreditators, such as ACICS by RA schools and by employers is abysmally low. DETC is substantially better in recognition of its degrees, but we're still not talking about a remotely level playing field.

This doesn't even get into the reasons that RA schools don't recognize non-RA degrees; that, too, has been extensively discussed on degreeinfo. I suspect that we will eventually see some change in this area, but not until the non-RA schools, on the whole, consistently upgrade their academic requirements. Some have already done that, but many more continue to churn out graduates with the absolute minimum academic rigor required to maintain approval from their respective accreditors.