Anyone know about the (closed) Clayton University (St. Louis)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Chip, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. 4theresa

    4theresa New Member

    Difference Between schools in Blog Thread

    California College of Natural Medicine is state-approved in CA. CCNM is a non-profit vocational school and clearly states this vocational/non-degree status on their website. They do not claim to award degrees. According to SB577 in CA, graduates can legally offer their services to the general public as long as they strictly adhere to the legal guidelines to not diagnose or treat disease. Curriculum is residential and online.
    Any one who thinks otherwise of this educational institution is either not reading the website or intentionally causing defamation of character. Freedom of speech is not a license to harm others. When you are writing blogs maybe you just don't care about how this affects graduates or students lives. CCNM graduates have responsible careers helping others offering non-toxic sound education. The founders brief resume is on the website for all to see.

    Clayton University closed 1989 and was NOT connected to Clayton School of Natural Health in Alabama, which just closed. During the 1980s, the United States Department of Education offered what was known as the "four by four" school approval process. If a university could prove that degrees earned by at least four different graduates had each been accepted by four regionally-accredited universities (a total of 16 acceptances), then that university was officially recognized, qualified for all Veterans and student loan situations, was given an FICE number by the Federal Interagency Commission on Education, and was duly listed in the Higher Education Directory. Clayton University was one of the schools that qualified under "four by four." A degree consultant would be irresponsible if he or she did not recommend such a school to relevant clients. Linus Pauling and Roger Williams were Board members and put their stamp of approval on this University.

    The third school is Clayton School of Natural Healing was recently closed. I am not confident as to the reason, however, some research indicates that they were not a federally recognized degree granting institution. Unfortunately for their existing students, this school did not refund students tuition and also even more important their reputation may have been injured. Graduates innocently completed training, paid tuition and now there is negativity about the school which may reflect on their ability to work. They say that they are arranging teach-outs for their students.
  2. Vern

    Vern New Member

    Still bearing the grief!

    I thought I would bring everyone up to date on Dr. Bear's offer to refund my tuition from Columbia Pacific University. It did take me a while to locate all of the documents he requested. I did find and send him copies of my tuition receipt that was marked paid in full, my transcripts and diplomas on June 30, 2010 by registered mail with a return receipt. I included a letter stating that if there was anything else he needed to let me know. On July 3, 2010, the Post Office delivered the package and secured his signature. I do have the return receipt. I waited and did not receive a reply or a refund.

    I sent him a follow up letter on October 7, 2010 stating that I had received the certified return receipt from the Post Office for the package that included all the requested documents for a refund. I pointed out in the letter that it had been several months and I had not received a reply or a tuition refund. I asked him to let me know what the situation is. To this date, May 13, 2011 (Friday the 13th), I have not received a communication or a refund. I guess I never will!
  3. Well, that is certainly great integrity on Dr Bear's behalf. Not many people would do that.
  4. Vern

    Vern New Member

    Your being facetious, correct? Especially since he was a paid "consultant" for Columbia Pacific University while writing glowing recommendations for the school. I spent my time and money gathering the information he requested for a refund and never even received the courtesy of a reply.
    How is that "great integrity?"
  5. No, I took that at face value. Sorry to hear that you weren't looked after. Are there any grounds for legal redresss?
  6. major56

    major56 Active Member


    Can /will you verify your claim with the USPS certified mail return receipt (dated July 3, 2010) with John Bear’s signature?

    Re John Bear 5/30/2009 03:04 PM:

    “Yes, I would consider doing that. Send me confirmation of your payment(s) to Columbia Pacific (receipts, credit card statement, and/or canceled checks) and evidence of your enrollment (copy of transcript and diploma). I will then verify with the archivist of CPU records, and if everything checks out, seriously consider your request. --John Bear ([email protected])”

    Consider per Dr. Bear’s initial response “…and if everything checks out, seriously consider your request.” Vern, that’s not an assurance to reimburse your expenses; however if your claim has merit, then a non-response (either yea or nay) could seemingly be considered both discourteous and troublesome.

    In that you’ve a 3-time poster since May 2009 and have openly made a significant claim via this forum; and if you can make available a copy of the certified mail return receipt, I, as perhaps others, would be interested in reading Dr. Bear's account. If on the other hand, you’re unable or disinclined to produce the alleged record, I would see no basis for John devoting the time to counter your accusation.
  7. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Who raised this thread from the dead and why?
  8. major56

    major56 Active Member


    As to whom … Vern on 5/13/11; as to why … again, we’re back full-circle to poster Vern for that answer. Why not let it play out?
  9. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

  10. Vern

    Vern New Member

    Still bearing the grief!

    I have no problem sending a copy of the return receipt to any of you that provide an e-mail address.

    I don't see what my frequency of posting on this site has to do with credibility, nor am I aware of any rule concerning posting on an aged but important (to those involved) string that concerns thousands of afflicted alumni from schools that were recommended by Dr. Bear.
  11. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    The problem is this:

    Trolls and operators of shady schools that dislike Dr. Bear have frequently tried to discredit him and others via various means. One of the most common is to create a new member profile, post once or twice, and then disappear.

    I believe your concerns are credible and expect you will get a response from John. My experience is he's about the busiest "retired" person I know so it may take some time for him to respond here, but he is also a person of extraordinarily high integrity, and it is not his style to simply ignore things.

    Feel free to email the copy of the return receipt to [email protected] and I'll post here when I receive and verify it (I know what John's signature looks like.)
  12. Vern

    Vern New Member

    Still bearing the grief!

    I have scanned the return receipt on two different computers using two different formats and the e-mail you gave me is not accepting the image. E-mail me an address at [email protected] and I will snail mail you a copy. The Post Office article number on the return receipt was 7010 0290 0000 1388 4540 and was signed by Dr. Bear on July 3, 2010. Given the posts here by others, myself and Dr. Bear, I see no room for doubts about the situation.
  13. Vern

    Vern New Member

    After sending Dr. Bear copies of all of the documents he asked for by certifed mail with a return receipt, I am still waiting for my tuition refund several years later.
  14. PCMonitor

    PCMonitor New Member

    Wait a minute folks. I earned my Ph.D. via Clayton and it was a real deal. I was professionally mentored and guided regularly by my advisor, and achieved a great deal of learning and research on my dissertation. My degree was also accepted by some very prestigeous employers and it greatly enhanced my career. Clayton was legal, and qualified for Federal Student Loans. So ease off a bit please. The alternative school concept was a great one, and was used by many leading universities across the USA. It is tragic that Clayton closed. I was proud to be an alumnus thereof.
  15. Tireman 44444

    Tireman 44444 Well-Known Member

    I wonder what happened to Vern? Hummm
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    As has been described earlier in this thread, there seems to have been several Claytons and so simply saying "I went to Clayton," is not enough information.
  17. Vern

    Vern New Member

    Still, Bearing The Grief!

    I am glad you asked! I just came over a copy of the Certified Return Receipt signed by Dr. Bear on July 3, 2010 and I still have not received a reply or a refund.

    Obviously, Dr. Bear was just trying to make himself look good to his many followers on this site. He was betting that I would not still have all the documents he requested. But I did have them and mailed them to him.

    To me, it was a pretty cruel joke to offer a refund that he never intended pay. Certainly, he wasted my time searching for, copying and mailing documents from years ago. I had to relive all the disappointment from his advise and be duped again

    As before, I would be glad to send a copy of the signed receipt to anyone who provides a regular e-mail address (not zip-mail).
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2016
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Hi Vern, how've you been? It's nice to see you're still around. You're coming up on that 7 year anniversary. Where's the party gonna be?
  19. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I wrote that I would consider paying Vern, although of course I had no obligation to do so. I did consider it, and decided not to.

    For more than 40 years, I have written, regarding choosing any school, that one should only choose it if one is satisfied that the degree will meet any current and predictable future degree requirements. That is still my best advice.

    Over the years, I've helped quite a few people gain acceptance of their Clayton (Missouri), Columbia Pacific, and other degrees by communicating with their current or would-be employers, and other gatekeepers. The most recent was a civil servant whose Clayton (Missouri) degree was accepted after he provided documentation of its listing in the influential and definitive Higher Education Directory (because of its acceptance by the Department of Education under the 3x3 and, latert, 4x4 qualifying rule).

    Incidentally, I operated my degree consulting service for about 2 ½ years -- 1978 to 1980 then sold it to Dr. Paul Proehl, the just-retired Vice Chancellor of UCLA (and founder/headc of their African Studies program) The deal closed the day John Lennon died.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2016
  20. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    Vern, what you seem to be suffering from is buyer's remose and that is hardly Dr. Bear's fault. Clearly, Clayton and Columbia Pacific were unaccredited. For various reasons both had some utility. Clayton was listed in the higher Ed directory and Columbia Pacific was California approved when that category existed. Bear has always been VERY clear to look at unaccredited schools in terms of meeting present and future needs. Dr. Bear cannot be held responsible if the Feds change their approach to unaccredited schools or if CPU implodes. Similar things happen at accredited schools. YOU chose that path.

    If I consult with Bear and want an affordable option for law school at a distance. He gives caveats and recommends the unaccredited California law schools, it is hardly his fault if the California Bar changes rules, the school implodes or I decide to move to Wyoming and don't qualify for the state bar.

    I would suggest looking at what you can do with your degrees (eg getting into an accredited grad program).
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2016

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