Anyone have experiance with University of Phoenix?

Of course I wouldn't want you to recant but I still contend that one class attempted with undesirable results on the part of the teacher and student does not make it a scam. Yes the UoP gets a lot of press just like Microsoft does. Nothing like success to bring out all the critics, right or wrong.

 

But Tim - A couple of points. First, UoP uses a compressed format (6 week terms) that is simply to short IMHO to do a quality job. When compared to a 13-15 week term, you simply can't jam an equivalent amount of material in. Working students can only take on so much material. My disdain applies to any school that attempts to run 5 or 6 week terms - they are too short.

External validation of my point - Ford Motor Company, a major Fortune 500 firm, will not give tuition reimbursement to salaried employees that attend any program (UoP or other) that meets for less than 8 weeks.

Second, a key aspect of UoP is that they hire faculty to "facilitate" courses, not to create fresh material. Sure, I could add material - but could I also covered the assigned material?

In my experience - circa 1998 - UoP had a very weak curriculum. Perhaps it is better now - what with their addition of 4 hours of study group material per week. As I recall the 4 hour study group deal came up about the time UoP was facing multi-million dollar fines from the US government regarding Federally sponsored financial aid. I've read that UoP has faced more fines since then. Further, the Chronicle of Higher Education reports that UoP has recently hired high level Republican operatives - for what? I'll let you guess.

Personally, I remained unconvinced of UoP's academic quality. If you find their program meets your needs - great.

Regards - Andy

 

Thanks for your take on it Andy. I have been considering teaching there but I will admit that the 6 week MSCIS classes that I took were a real hustle and I wish that they had spread it out to at least 10 weeks so we could catch our breath and do some more in-depth research on various topics of interest. I got my MSCIS after 20 years of developing software so it was relatively easy for me but I did feel sorry for the students that were from other disciplines since this much material in a short time was overwhelming.

 

Andy:

What do you think of Jones International, who seem to follow a one-course-at-a-time model, with (I believe) 8 week terms?

(My apologies if this has been discussed before.)

 

Gert - I really don't know anything about Jones. 8 weeks is better than 6 - but there are lots of other factors.

Regards - Andy

 

Understood.

I agree that 6 weeks seems too short -- at least for my learning style. On the other hand, Stanford and UCSD use a 10-week quarter system, which I found fine. So perhaps 8 weeks is OK.

USC's business school (Marshall) uses a 6-week term system, and it's one of the top schools in the country. (Rest of USC uses a semester system. I have never attended USC so I can't comment personally on the 6-week term.)

 

It is extremely difficult to have rational, intelligent discussions on such matters.

First, most individuals don't have a point of reference... i.e. they don't have a UoP degree AND a top tier degree to enable a personal comparison.

Second, vested interest. This was not a free experience, void of effort. "I did spend considerable dollars and I did spend 6 weeks, along with balancing work and family considerations, and I now have a UoP degree and I resent you saying it is inferior".

Third, it is regionally accredited.

In summary, I don't have a point of reference and I did "work" for my RA degree so for you to suggest it is, in any way, inferior... you must be an Ivy league snob, or prejudiced against DL, etc.

One must wonder what the RA are smoking to allow this to continue... and you wonder why the British and Australian authorities do not grant general equivalencies.

 

For my Bachelor's degree, I took mostly 8-week accelerated semester classes, with the sole exception of a 4-week compressed course. The 4-week course was hell, I could do little else except sleep, work, and study for the whole time.

It's my experience that 8-week courses are about the shortest amount of time that one should attempt a 3 semester credit course.


Bruce

 

In summary, I don't have a point of reference and I did "work" for my RA degree so for you to suggest it is, in any way, inferior... you must be an Ivy league snob, or prejudiced against DL, etc.

One must wonder what the RA are smoking to allow this to continue... and you wonder why the British and Australian authorities do not grant general equivalencies


I couldn't agree with you more, Ken.

 

How is this different from other universities? It's one of higher education's dirty little secrets that a large chunk of the teaching (especially lower-level courses) is being done by adjuncts. You can go to Harvard and then take courses a local community collge in MA and end up having the same instructor.

 

Ken - I have reasonable point of reference. I graduated with an MBA from Vanderbilt - a top 25 MBA program. Further, I've taught for UoP (until 98), Baker College and a number of on-ground, part-time MBA programs.

I see a vast difference between two years of full-time study in a program like Vanderbilt's and part-time, DL programs like Baker and UoP. Both result in the awarding of an MBA. Both are valid learning. But the differences are great:

1. Faculty quality - At Vanderbilt I was taught by full-time faculty that were active in research and had done significant consulting. When I read journal articles or textbooks I saw their names as the authors that created their fields of study. In the part-time MBA world students mostly read textbooks - not the original source (jounals). Further, the faculty are mostly practitioners working part-time. They tend to have little exposure to theory or current research. They have some good experiences - but often lack the depth and breadth of the faculty I faced at Vanderbilt.

2. Student quality - At Vanderbilt students had to have strong GPAs and GMATs to be admitted. Overall, the student population was pretty sharp. Most students had work experience - but typically 2-4 years (not 20+). The part-time programs I've worked in were effectively open admission and don't require the GMAT. Most of the students have significant work experience. As a result, there is a wide variation in student quality. Some students are quite bright - others don't belong in graduate school. Enrollment hungry part-time programs (especially among the for-profit schools) don't seem to care.

3. Impact on students - The two years I spent at Vanderbilt were life changing for me. I worked full-time (60+ hours per week), got to work with world renown faculty and grew intellectually. As for my part-time students - I don't doubt they learn from their studies. But they lack the immersion and close interaction I enjoyed in a full-time program.

Conclusion - If I had it to do all over, I'd pursue full-time study at the best MBA program I could attend. Barring that, I'd pursue an MBA with the strongest part-time or executive program that I could gain admission to. As for DL and low intensity part-time programs - these would be at the bottom of my list.

Regards - Andy

 

I have seen UoP compared to Vanderbilt but not compared to Baker College. Comments? I have considered Keller, UoP, Baker, Capella. Due to Keller's legal dept interpretation of the Stafford Loan guidelines, it was reluctantly eliminated ($27k.) Is its relationship to DeVry giving it a bad rep?

My 2nd choice UoP, costs twice what Baker does - $23k vs $12k. I haven't been able to, specifically, determine the actual "quality" of each school, its MBA program or the strength of its courses.

After much research, I believe that Keller has the strongest and highest quality of these four. UoP, the school, seems under fire - is this the "Bash UoP" topic/thread? UoP the MBA program and quality of courses seems stronger than Baker and Baker is quite a bit stronger than Capella.

Any comments?

(I had to edit this quite a bit because I got into other areas of how these four programs handle similar things differently. I'll post that info / question separately. It would be good to find out if my thought process on these other areas is reasonable.)

Thanks.
BobbyC

 

Due to health and disability problems, I am, pretty much, limited to MBA programs at Keller, UoP, Baker or Capella.

My admissions rep has been like an aluminum siding salesperson. Sell, Sell, Sell! Also, the UoP loan disbursement program has serious disadvantages. Most schools disburse quarterly. As you take classes, you pay tuition and then, immediately, you receive loan funds for livings expenses.

At UoP, you have to agree to use the loan funds to pay tuition that is due today AND due into the future and collect living expense funds only twice per year. I said you have to pay FUTURE tuition with today's loan funds. If you don't agree, they won't accept your application. Also, due to several quirks, students/learners lose eligibility for 15% of their Stafford funds, they would have available at other universities. If you can pay for UoP without that 15%- great, if not-too bad. (It's really too complicated to go into.) Perhaps the "For Profit" nature of UoP has them earning millions in interest (or just the "free" use of future tuition funds already collected) each year - if all UoP students (or online) are in the calulation

Apparently, I have been the only one to shop/compare by loan funds and the disbursement policy. I can only imagine that these issues do not affect the average UoP student, maybe not ANY students. As these negative issues add up, UoP is looking extremely undesirable.

I am leaning towards Baker, however their MBA program is not as comprehensive vs Keller & UoP. UoP's program is set. You pick the field, you take these 16 classes. Electives are thoughtfully selected for you. I can't control the quality of Baker's courses, but I believe I can improve the breadth of the degree. If you do an informal spreadsheet, comparing the degree requirements betweenseveral programs, it's easy to see the gaps. Baker offers these "missing" courses, they're just not required. We can even the playing field a bit.

Keller ($27k) & UoP ($23k) have 24-26 month program, while Baker is approx 18 mos ($12k) If I choose Baker, I will be taking additional classes to pump up their core program for classes I feel must be part of the MBA program - nearly every program (even ones I can't attend) has three courses not included at baker.

Investing a portion of the tuition savings into several additional courses, makes Baker's program completion, breadth of MBA degree and cost closer to Keller, UoP and others. And I don't have to deal with UoP.

So. Am I cutting and pasting too much.... unnecessarily? I have, long ago, eliminated Regis, Franklin, Norwich. I wanted a dual degree but Keller is the only one to ffoer one.

I'd be interesting in any help ... I plan to attend in September. (Right after my aluminum siding is installed thanks

 

I will advise you to go with Baker because of the following reasons:

1. Baker College is less known than UoP. It will also be less bashed than well-known UoP.
2. Baker MBA costs less than either Keller or UoP.
3. The quality of MBA at these three schools may be the same.

Note: These three schools are RA.

 

I agree with you on this. I teach for Baker and formerly (up until 1998) taught for UoP.

My observation is that the programs are fairly similar in terms of structure. For example, both schools employ six week terms (not my favorite!). They also share a significant number of adjunct faculty members. I have found the Baker administraiton, however, to operate the school in a more academic way. They're not afraid to market - but they give academic standards more concern than what I observed elsewhere. Of late, for example, they've been working on grade inflation, for example. Further, the percentage of their revenue that they put into marketing is lower than Phoenix and they are non-profit. Although it may noit mean a whole lot - they are IACBE accredited while UoP isn't. Finally, they do employ full-time faculty to "anchor" the program.

Thanks - Andy

 

I teach in the UOP Online MBA program and have been impressed with the faculty with whom I've interacted -- I have no knowledge of the financial aid situation, however.

By the way, Touro also has an online MBA program that seems to be pretty good. Have you examined it and their financial aid policies?

Cheers,

Dave

 

Is it true

That the Dept of Education of the State of Pennsylvania is looking into Phoenix due to false advertising regarding tuition pricing.
Locking a student into a quoted cost then upcharging in the middle of the program?

It seems for an online school their cost is very high.
Funny is see a comment on this thread about "kitty cloning"
reading an article about the schools founder, looks like a
candidate for the quackery site.

 

Re: Is it true

I don't think so.....

Tuition pricing is announced to students clearly in advance and the tuition is charged by semester hour for the course load. The Pennsylvania Dept of Education just completed an on site visit to the Philadelphia campus in June and highly praised the facility. No contracts are signed with the student quoting the tuition will remain static throughout thier program. Students are free to abandon their studies at any time.

Regards,

Dick

 

Buyer Beware

When people at my place of employment found out that I took a couple of UoP classes, they would roll their eyes into the back of their head. They call it "Phoenix" for short. It has a very bad reputation in my locale. However, I don't know what the UoP reputation is in other locales.

When I switched to another non-traditional university program at a different school, nobody rolled their eyes into the back of their head.

I am glad to be out of the UoP program.

 

Re: Buyer Beware

Hi. A couple of questions for you:

-- What is your locale?
-- What program were you studying?
-- Why did you switch to another school?
-- What school did you choose?

I'm always curious about why people start a program and then leave without finishing.

Thanks,

Dave