Anyone have experiance with University of Phoenix?

I graduated from International College and it has the initials “I” and “C.” Hey, isn't that a remarkable coincidence!

You made some interesting points which I can neither confirm nor deny.

Hey, if I complete a masters degree from the University of South Florida, will it redeem the notion that my undergraduate degree is from a crappy school?

 

Tracy - The use of part-timers isn't all bad. Many schools do this for a variety of reasons - to bring a blend (as UoP says) of theory and application is certainly one reason. To save money is another. Adjuncts typically cost 30% of the cost of full-time faculty. However, if you'll consider the attached quotes from 3 different accrediting body you'll see what faculty should be doing. Many DL institutions have deemphasized and reengineered how these functions are done, largely I suspect in the interest of cost control. I object to this and paying students should too.

If you'll accept my assertion that for-profits suffer a 20% cost disadvantage (the main result from an extended discussion in this NG a while ago), what is the impact on academic quality?

While it certainly is true that spending isn't the only driver of academic quality, spending certainly can't hurt.

Consider the USNews ranking critieria. They consider per-student spending because: "Generous per-student spending indicates that a college is able to offer a wide variety of programs and services." They also consider the percentage of faculty that are full-time and faculty pay as quality indicators in their "Faculty Resources" area.

Regards - Andy

ABET Statements about faculty:

The faculty is the heart of any educational program. There must be sufficient faculty to accommodate adequate levels of student-faculty interaction, student advising and counseling, university service activities, professional development, and interactions with
industrial and professional practitioners, as well as employers of students.

AACSB Statements about faculty:

FD.4.a: The school should maintain a full-time faculty sufficient to provide stability and ongoing quality improvement for the degree programs offered.
IN.2: The school's faculty in aggregate and the faculty's sub-units are responsible for: effective creation and delivery of instruction,
evaluation of instructional effectiveness and student achievement,
continued improvement of instructional programs, and
innovation in instructional processes
IC.1: Faculty members should make intellectual contributions on a continuing basis appropriate to the school's mission. The outputs from intellectual contributions should be available for public scrutiny by academic peers or practitioners.

ACBSP Statements

ACBSP considers the following functions to be essential responsibilities of the faculty. Though other qualified individuals may participate in these functions, faculty must play an essential role.

1. Classroom teaching assignments
2. Student advising and counseling activities
3. Scholarly and professional activities
4. Community and college service activities
5. Administrative activities
6. Business and Industry interaction
7. Special research programs and projects
8. Thesis and dissertation supervision and direction, if applicable

 

@ vpalango: good luck you didn´t get a C in your class, and kinda survived with a B.

But hold on - a C grade is STILL a PASSING GRADE, or am I getting the US grading system totally wrong? So what would be the problem with the C ? Would you get your degree with a bunch of C´s or not? (really curious).

(see this as a hint towards American grade inflation. In Europe, a C is mostly the AVERAGE grade - no kidding - and nearly no-one gets straight A´s...)

Greets,
Trigger

 

___________________________________________________
@ vpalango: good luck you didn´t get a C in your class, and kinda survived with a B.

But hold on - a C grade is STILL a PASSING GRADE, or am I getting the US grading system totally wrong? So what would be the problem with the C ? Would you get your degree with a bunch of C´s or not? (really curious).

(see this as a hint towards American grade inflation. In Europe, a C is mostly the AVERAGE grade - no kidding - and nearly no-one gets straight A´s...)

Greets,
Trigger

___________________________________________________

I agree with your point that a C is a passing grade. However, not to be too immodest, I am never satisfied personnally with less than an A in any course I take. So I guess I misstated my point. The point is, that I (due to work issues) slacked off my work just a bit, and was unable to maintain the A average which I had maintained to date. This is not because the coursework was easy, but rather because I put 20-30 hours/week into my coursework, and when I didn't, my grades suffered.

Again, the point here is that I've seen alot of comments that imply that one can get an A, simply through attendance at the UoP, and that is not my experience. And in fact, I've seen cases where students have failed courses.

Additionally, from my experience in the BSIT program, most of the people in the classes are already in the IT industry. It's pretty natural that a person taking an IT cirriculum, that works in the IT industry should be able to maintain a high GPA.

There's a completetly different discussion that could be had about the american university system becomming a mill for working papers rather than education. And I'd tend to agree with that.

I'll be perfectly honest... I go to the UoP because I need the "piece of paper" to advance my career. I don't feel that I lack skills or knowledge to attain a higher level position, but the industry demands that I have a degree to advance further. I chose UoP because I needed the flexible format, and if I'm going to get a degree, I want to get something out of it, more than the paper it is written on. At the UoP, at least in my case, I'm getting what I wanted.

Respectfully, thanks for listening,

V. Palango
[email protected]

 

Andy, if the hiring of part-time faculty to help give a blend of theory and practice is not all bad, and if the 20% disadvantage in funding is made-up for by saving 30% on faculty pay, and if there are some full-time faculty to provide continuity in curriculum development, than I don't see how you can make the statement that academic quality must be suffering at UoP, and you haven't cleared up yet whether that is or isn't happening at UoP speciffically.

If UoP does not meet the standards for professional accreditation than they shouldn't have it. That much is elementary. But it is also elementary that professional accreditation is not universally accepted by professionals as being required to prove that an institution is maintaining standards of academic quality. It appears as though few hiring managers look for it.


Tracy<><

 

trigger,

I believe that at the Masters level at UoP you must to maintain a 3.00 GPA (B) in order to graduate. I am not sure if a C is considered a passing grade at that level, but you certainly can't graduate if you have all C's.

For the BS programs, a bunch of C's are not a problem. You need a 2.00 GPA (C) to graduate.

Regards,

 

Part time student l - life long learner

I'll rate my college exeperiences into two categories;

ADMINISTRATION AND THE PROGRAM OVERALL >>> from my viewpost !!!!! >>>>> LOOKING BACK

Type Administration Program

St. Joseph's College Classes B- B-
Roger Williams Univ Classes A A
Univ. of Phoenix BSBA/MAOM C B+
University of Redlands MBA A A
Pepperdine University Ed.D A- B
Univ. of Sarasota DBA C- C
Indiana University Classes D D
Golden West College Classes C C
TESC ASM B- B
Regents College USNY BS D- **
West Coast University Classes C C
National University Classes B- C
Univ of Southen Cal Classes A A
UCLA Classes B- A-
** = can only rate Admin

 

Time to ask the question again... assuming that one wants a solid education and a respected credential, why would anyone choose UoP if they were knowledgeable of the plethora of alternate programs available?

 

________________________________________
Time to ask the question again... assuming that one wants a solid education and a respected credential, why would anyone choose UoP if they were knowledgeable of the plethora of alternate programs available?

_________________________________________

You can certainly say that there are a "plethora" of alternate programs available at the Graduate level. Also, you can find a "plethora" of programs for Business Administration. However, at the Bachelors level I haven't found a large number of choices for a degree in Information Systems/Technology, that are taught online with no classroom requirement.

The online classroom with the free schedule allowed at UoP is pretty unique according to the research I have done, if you want an IT degree. I've seen alot of programs, but few that have all the things that UoP does, and is accredited, and in the U.S. (At least in my case, I need all these factors because of my company's reimbursement policy)

To date, this is the only program I have found which allows me to finish school, while having a job which requires travel 50-70% of the time, and allows me to pretty flexibly re-schedule courses if my workload at a particular time requires me to re-adjust.

V. Palango
[email protected]

 

Tracy - Here is a reply. Regards - Andy

All I'm saying is that the combination of being for-profit and using lowly paid, part-time adjuncts for all classes should raise some concerns for prospective students. Full-time faculty serve a purpose in the academic world and accreditors believe they are needed. UoP and other institutions have been challenged on this point by regional accreditors. UoP employs very few (90) for the huge student population (40,000+) that they serve. When I taught at UoP, I thought the academic program suffered and was weak. However, that was a few years ago and I only saw one part of the UoP empire. Possibly other faculty and students have other experiences. Based on the posts to this thread - there seem to be a variety of experiences - some good and some bad.

Also, the point that adjuncts and what they bring deserves some comment. I've worked with adjuncts in several different academic institutions. They do add a dimension that is important. However, to suggest that adjuncts balance theory and practice is not what I've seen. Most adjuncts are strongly practitioner oriented. It is a rare breed of adjuncts (or full-timers) that can provide a solid balance of theory and practice. Further, adjuncts are hired to teach for their assigned time. Most leave immediately afterwards and provide little of the advising or academic support in curriculum development that schools need.

Point taken. But what I'm saying is the fact that many DL programs (including UoP) are incapable of being accredited and that the best (by any ranking list you care to see) business schools are accredited should raise another red flag. UoP and a host of other programs may meet the educational needs of many mid-career folks. However, to think that a UoP MBA (or most DL MBAs or most part-time evening MBAs) are of the same caliber as a top rated, AACSB accredited school (e.g. Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, Michigan, et al) is foolishness. The letters may be the same (MBA) but the experience is vastly different.

As for hiring managers - part of the ranking efforts done by BusinessWeek, US News and others in their MBA evaluations is to poll recruiters. To date UoP and all the DL programs we talk about here (except Duke) haven't shown up in the top 50 lists.

Regards - Andy

Tracy<>< [/QUOTE]

 

[/B][/QUOTE]


I would also add that hiring managers who are specifically recruiting MBAs are looking for graduates of the top programs, all of which are AACSB accredited. I would also agree that the experience is vastly different in AACSB schools.

I agreed to help a friend with some Operations Management (OM) work...In my progam (non AASCB) there wasn't quite the level of Quantitative Analysis (QA) as the OM class offered at the AASCB school.

I did have the opportunity to take a QA class, but it was isolated, and I never had a chance to use it as much as QA is used in all of the AACSB schools I know. (WashU, St. Louis U, UofMissouri St. Louis, and Southern Illinois University)

Would I pursue an AASCB MBA if I had it to do over? YES. What I didn't know when I began my MBA is that I would want to teach later. There is a BIG bias against non AACSB B-schools; even in business departments of non AACSB schools.

Now, I am too far gone, have no time to travel to meet residency requirements, and eager to find a job in academia; even if it means a 20k/yr paycut or a JUCO job. Therefore, Touro is my choice.

 

[/B][/QUOTE]


First of all, I haven't compared UoP to Harvard, Chicago, Michigan, et el. I haven't seen anyone else do so either. So, to add to this discussion that to do so would be foolishness is something of a red herring.

I agree that it is obvious that some students and former faculty members have had a problem with academic quality at UoP. If NCA has had a problem with it, it wasn't enough even to put them on probation, nor is the mix of full-time and part-time faculty. That is a clarification that must be made. Also, you said in your post that "schools" need the advising and academic support in curriculum development that full-time profs provide. I suspect you meant that "students" need that. If my suspicion is correct, than I bet there are many DL students on this board who have gotten along fine without extensive faculty advisement, and who would say their experience was educational. As far as curriculum development goes, I don't think you necessarily need a large full-time cadre to do so. This is especially true in the case of a school like UoP which has working professionals delivering the coursework, clarify issues, and providing imput.

In the end, the student will have to make the choice, it is a choice best made by addressing facts rather than feelings, in my opinion. While DL students will have many choices, it is clear that UoP is among the most expensive. But, if some students prefer to be taught by working professionals because of what they bring to the table, than a choice to go with UoP may certainly be a good choice.

Tracy<><

 

DCross,

It may be true that most of the *recruiting* for MBAs is done at the top schools, but not all hiring managers are looking for MBAs from the top schools. There are certain industries and certain companies within certain industries into which non-ivy leaguers will not likely be hired. But there are other industries and other companies that will hire non-ivy leaguers. For us, the task will be to figure out which good-ole' boy network (if not the ivy leage club) we belong too, and network within that group. I, for instance, hope to be a military retiree when I hit the job market. That is a very active network in certain sectors.

I have little doubt that there are quantifiable differences between the top business schools and the others, so the divisions are probably appropriate. I have to wonder, though, if the amount of QA in an MBA program is really a main factor in the quality of a program, or even if AACSB will accredit a program. There are programs that focus on QA and programs that focus on case studies. I think AACSB has accredited both types.

The 20K pay cut that you claim you will have to take is only a cut if you use an ivy-league salary as a reference point. It would be more appropriate to use not having an MBA as a reference point since, as you say, you are too far gone for an ivy league MBA anyway. Under that light, the Touro MBA may well equate to the same net gain in salary that most post grads hope for, and can often expect.

Tracy<><

 

Great assumption and innuendo, Andy,

I see you are still up to your old tricks. Got any facts to back this statement? Or are your merely brain farting again?

ApolloGroup, UOP's parent, donated $1 million for 9-11 relief efforts, Andy, society's good. Just how many bucks did your esteemed institution donate, if any?

Several of the UOP campuses have charitable project(s) they work on and faculty members can be found doing a lot of others.

The San Diego UOP group repainted a nearby Little League Field. Several of their faculty ride in Midnight Madness, which raises funds for AIDS. What has your faculty done and, more appropriately, what have you done?

So much for your academic robes and ignorant, rocking chair pronouncements.

Your grandiose staments regarding AACSB and other professional accreditations has been debunked elsewhere.



jim

 

So you didn't read the book and you didn't do any work and your upset that you didn't learn anything. Sounds as if you are the scam and not the University. There are always students and faculty that work very hard and deserve their grade. There are also those people that bring nothing to the picnic but still receive an undeserved reward. I received my MSCIS from UoP and busted my butt 25 hours a week for 2 years. I finished with a 4.0 and received a 96% on the comprehensive exam.

Out of 15 professors I had a few lousy ones a few mediocre a few good and three that were world class. I have undergrads from Cal Poly SLO and Portland State University and I would say that UoP was much harder due to all the research and writing and having to be online almost everyday. I would also say that the distribution to good and bad teachers was about the same and the distribution of students that achieve and the ones that didn’t is probably about the same.

We all work with dead beats that receive pay close to ours that absolutely don't deserve it and they might even claim the company is a scam but life is what you bring to it and not what someone forces down your throat. Hopefully in the future you might try reading the book and doing the work and setting a good example for others including the teacher to follow. By your good example and earning the respect of others you might someday be instrumental at getting the University to remove teachers/facilitators that are not earning their pay.

 

As a “career student” (LOL) and due to my military background, I have had the opportunity to attend all of the following schools:

• Los Angeles Valley College
• University of Southern California
• Virginia Commonwealth University
• Northern Virginia Community College
• Central Texas College
• University of Central Texas
• International College
• Columbia Union College
• University of South Florida
• University of Phoenix [sic]

The class I had at the University of Phoenix was a joke. In fact, it appeared to be a scam. I “purchased” an easy “A.” I am not alone and many others have corroborated this experience.

Before you blow your cork, please accept my apology if my assessment of the UoP program offends you and does not live up to your expectations. After all, it is you who has the UoP degree (and not I).

My objective analysis was pointed towards the UoP program and not towards you personally. Please don't take it "personally." You can take your UoP degree and…. and… go places with it! LOL

Let's stay focused on the schools and not take these critical comments {of the schools} personally.

I only wish the best for you in all your endeavors.

 

I certainly don't take your comments personally and it is a shame that you have to be sarcastic concerning my 4.0 at UoP. I also earned a BS in Math, Computer Science, and Business with a 3.8 GPA from Cal Poly SLO and Portland State. Since you brought up the military I also have an Army Commendation medal as a Combat Medic in Viet Nam in 1969. All of these things I have earned by going above and beyond what is required regardless of the environment.

My point is that you stated you took one class at UoP and you received an A without reading the book and without doing any of the assignments therefore you are proclaiming the school to be a scam. The instructor/facilitator was obviously a scam and I don't think the whole University should get a black eye. Maybe if you had tried a second class you may have had different results. I also think that you should read the textbook and do the assignments for your own benefit and not because an instructor requires it.

As I stated I had good and bad instructors in every University I attended and the same goes for every organization I have worked in. My first Online class at UoP was of very high quality and my second one was poor because the instructor did not take an active role. I was disappointed to see that he is still an instructor there three years later. It would be nice if he were tossed because I suspect that many people have complained. Then again many people like the easy way out so maybe there haven’t been many complaints. I still did all the assignments and learned from the text and daily interactions with the other students. I still think highly of the Online environment and I had many fine instructors and a few that were just raping the system. These few are a scam but the University as a whole is not.

I believe that you get out of life what you put into it and not just doing what other people require. But then again I think people that smoke are responsible for their cancer and not the tobacco companies, and I think OJ is guilty and I also think it takes parents to raise a child and not a village. I guess I just like to take my own responsibility for my successes and failures and not let anything get in the way, especially bad teachers and some of the lazy students that I have had to deal with over the years.

 

I liked reading my classmates assignments since I could also learn from their experiences. Maybe since I was getting my MSCIS this was an important aspect of the learning environment but may no be true for other disciplines. Actually this is what I liked best about the Online environment. It was much easier to share experiences since we can all talk at once in an asynchronous environment as opposed to having an instructor parrot the book. This is especially true if the instructor has not had any experience outside of academia.

 

MonacoTim,

I have never seen a school that has demonstrated as much controversy as the University of Phoenix. Bar none (excluding non-RA schools).

However, it is wonderful that you are happy that you got a degree from the University of Phoenix.

What more can I say? Do you want me to say, "Oh, and by the way, the UoP is a great school!!!" Do you want me to recant my assessment? In good conscience, I cannot recant.

How about you? Of course you can't.

 

If you were the facilitator/instructor and the class material was weak couldn't you have done something to make it better? How about a great lecture including your real world experiences as it relates to IT? How about discussion questions that foster deeper thought, investigation, critical thinking, and research? Seems like the ball is in your court to make it a strong offering for the students.