Anyone have experiance with University of Phoenix?

Re: What does R/A give you

Answer:

Other non R/A is Barrington U. Catalog states they are in the process of R/A. I mailed and called. Could not get an answer on how far of a process they are into R/A nor the agency name.
Heck, they will not even return my calls now.

[/QUOTE]

Wow! First I've heard that Barrington is claiming they're seeking RA. If they're still in Alabama this week (I think that was the last I heard, after Vermont, New York, Iowa, and a couple other places), then they'd be applying to the Southern Association. But I'll be willing to wager that their idea of "in the process of RA" probably means they've located the phone number for the Southern Association, but haven't called them yet to get a packet.

It will probably be a little difficult for Barrington, given their lack of a faculty, a campus, any sort of major resources, and any of the other trappings of an RA school.

Additionally, all the regionals frown on schools claiming, prior to receiving candidacy, that they are pursuing the process...

 

Chip

Oh Yes, They state the above on their site and even their catalog.
When questioned I received the following:We are licensed by the State of Alabama Department of Education, and do not currently hold an accreditation that is recognized by the US Department of Education. This accrediting process is a 1-2 year process. At this time, the agency we are seeking accreditation from restricts us from disclosing them. Any updates, however, will be posted on our website.

Then no further response.

Why the Top Secret regarding RA?
Chip, can you give your professional opinion?

Dave

 

I've never taken any classes at UoP, but, for what it's worth, I think UoP *may* be getting a bad rap, too. It is not surprising that sticklers for the public schools get a thorn in their craw over a for-profit institution, which *may* also account for the reported difficulty of getting a teaching position at a public institution based upon a UoP degree.

Evidence for a lack of standards at UoP seems to be in short supply. So far, as Bruce has pointed out, all we have are anecdotes. Anecdotal "evidence" is a myth. Anecdotes are useful for providing illustration, and perhaps more to the point in terms of UoP, for entertainment. It is also relevant to point out that there is a significant portion of the student body at many schools (including traditional brick-and-mortar institutions) that think their school sucks. It is apparently part of the college experience for some.

As for the relative ease of some courses at UoP (if those anecdotes have any truth behind them), ask anyone with more than a few years of college experience. Most colleges, both DL and traditional, have at least a few classes in which it seems all that is required is to show up when the instructor calls roll. If those are not the classes you want, don't take them. If you want 'em, don't knock 'em.

Tracy<><

 

So where does all of this end? What should a potential student conclude? Input from students and faculty suggest some difference of opinion about the quality of UoP's programs - some find it rigorous, others do not. Potential students will have to draw their own conclusions.

A couple of "facts" to consider - Each reader needs to weigh these items and the biases of those that would support the various interpretations listed.

1. UoP business programs (their largest area of instruction, I am certain) is not professionally accredited by AACSB or ACBSP - the two professional accreditors that are CHEA approved. Does this matter? Some folks (such as myself) says "yes - professional accreditation speaks to the quality of a program. Such organizations really do know something about how to teach business and all the top schools in the US are accredited.". Others would say "accreditors like AACSB and ACBSP are old fashion and don't understand DL - professional accreditation doesn't matter in fields like business."

2. UoP employs extremely few full-time faculty (90 according to the most recent IPEDS report. Some folks (such as myself) say that full-time faculty are essential to the operation of a quality program. Faculty need to provide student advising and curriculum development. The use of para-professionals to advise students, for example, is less creditable than using faculty. Other folks would say "UoP works in a different mode and traditional comparisons like this don't mean anything. Andy only wants full-time faculty to employ his buddies."

3. UoP is for profit. I've posted at length to the financial implications of this. My analysis shows that for-profits operate at a 20% or greater disadvantage (due to the need to make a profit, the lack of gift income and tax obligations) that non-profits don't face.

Thanks - Andy

 

The main campus is in Naples, Florida.

Source

 

Re: Re: Re: UoP

Nope, I don't care enough to get upset. All the opinions in the world are great. But, plenty of people have posted specific problems they have had with UoP, and quickly dismissing them as vague and ubsubstantiated as you have done suggests you have not read the thread closely enough to see these specific examples. That is all I was trying to point out. It was not an attack on you of any sort.

Here is my specific example: UoP doesn't teach *real* critical reading and writing skills. My specific example is three students in my class of four who could barely speak English, wrote even worse, plagiarized their writing material straight from the Internet, and never referenced. I can say all of this because I was the one who the instructor required to edit these papers since I was the only student who was a native speaker of the language in class.

The instructor knew of the plagiarism, but dismissed it as "foreigners don't know any better" and let it go. This angered me, as I put in more than a few late nights writing the best papers I could, only to see everyone in the class get an "A" grade despite the wild differences in quality and content.

If students can't read and write, they do not belong in a university-level class (unless it is remedial English) until they can. If instructors don't enforce plagiarism rules, they do not belong in a classroom. There are good reasons for both these points.

Christian

 

Andy,

I do not wish to argue against the point that professional accreditation is a good measure of quality. I want to point out though that most DL only schools lack professional accreditation for their programs. I cite as examples, Walden, Capella and Union. Based on the comments I've heard, they're pretty good schools. Yet, their programs are not professionally accredited.

 

Good point - but why do many DL programs lack professional accreditation, especially in business?

I've worked with the ACBSP standards and have reviewed the AACSB set. Many of the DL programs talked about in this NG couldn't be accredited - mostly due to their lack of full-time faculty, curriculum and library resources. To achieve accreditation would significantly increase their cost structure. Since a number of the DL schools in question - UoP, Walden, and Argosy - are for profits and focused on maximizing shareholder wealth (not society's good), they tend not to bother. Many of their potential students don't recognize the importance of such acccreditation.

I'd argue that the actions AACSB and ACBSP require are good for quality. Indeed, all the top MBA programs in the US are AACSB accredited - use anybody's list you care to consider. Others might argue that none of this matters.

Interestingly, some of these schools are APA (psychology) or NLN (nursing) accredited. Why do they bother? Because graduates can't get jobs in these fields without going to an APA or NLN school.

Regards - Andy

 

One More Perspective

I have been at UoP since June of '98. I can relate to much of the discussion that has transpired through this thread, but thought I would offer my opinion.

First of all, I would like to say that I have been in and out of college for a good bit of my adult life. I have attended two in-state universities, plus a couple of community colleges. As with most anything in life, my experiences there were varied (good classes, bad classes and good teachers, bad teachers). This gives some means of comparison.

For all of the same reasons as everyone else, here were my personal requirements to complete my bachelor's degree:

1) Can't interfere with my existing employment (after hours classes only).

2) A means of completing my degree whether I travel or not.

3) An accredited institution.

4) A degree that would be at least somewhat useful to me.

Although cost is always a consideration, my employer has a decent tuition reimbursement program. When I first found out about UoP (pre June of 1998), it seemed like the perfect solution. In fact, after a bit of digging it was the only solution that I found.

As others have mentioned, I wouldn't grade UoP's whole program based on the GEN 300 course that students first take. It was certainly an easy "A", but suspect one of its objectives is to get students used to the online environment. Other courses have varied widely in terms of my time and resources.

I think that as far as quality of education goes, you can get out of it what you put into it. If you only want to skate by, you probably can. If you do all of the reading assignments and keep up with the course work, you can learn about as much as you would in a traditional classroom. I have truly learned quite a bit. Have I learned as much as I would have at a traditional school? Probably not. But all of the benefits outweigh the drawbacks for me.

I frequently receive junk email offering me the degree of my choice for my life experience. If all I wanted was a piece of paper to hang on the wall, I would have obliged the diploma mill. But I wanted more and I think I'm getting more. I have but three courses to go, and I should have my diploma from UoP. Will I lose a future job to someone with a degree from a better school? Maybe. But when the ad in the paper says "degree required", I will have an accredited one.

I'm in too deep to consider switching to another school now, but I would suggest to a prospective student to shop around. List your criteria as I did, then narrow the field. I don't think that you will be satisified with whatever you select, provided that it meets your objectives.

- Mark

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: UoP

Again this is anecdotal. What evidence is there that UoP is such a crappy school?

When I was beginning my degree @ IUPUI, my TEACHER barely spoke english. This is common in large universities; that there will be professors that are difficult to understand, due to their accents.

The point is many schools are better than UoP. Many are worse.
Is UoP a scam? NO. We all should take everything into consideration before making a decision. What a decision maker should ignore, is what there is a lot of in this thread; anecdotal, unsubstantiated evidence.

 

I would add that Nova Southeastern also lacks AACSB

 

I'm new to this conversation, but I'm seeing alot of people criticizing UoP for experiences that I simply don't share. I'm in my 5th class at UoP and don't find any of the following to be true::

1) That it is a scam program. I've had to work for my grades throughout the program so far, and I've had the opportunity to learn in each and every class.

2) That the quality of the instructors is lacking. I certainly have had many different styles from my teachers, but none of them were incapable.

Also, I've seen the criticism often about the fact that these are not "full time" staff. For those of us who work full time, we'd be taking night classes anyway in a traditional institution. In night school (and I have tried that method at a major Boston area University), I had problems understanding thier instruction because most of them hardly spoke english!

The UoP is fairly expensive. However, for me at least, this is offset by the convenience of thier program, balanced out against a busy life.

Finally, as a personal observation, it's very easy not to get an A in every class. I went through a particularly difficult time at work durring my last class, and didn't have my usual 10-20 hours/week to work on school. I just barely got by with a B, and was risking a C in the class.

Also, for those who felt the courseload was easy, clearly they didn't have to take Critical Thinking MGT350. I spent 30+ hours/week on that class, and turned in a long team paper and a long individual paper each week. I know of at least 3 students who FAILED the class I was in alone.

So, I understand that some have had bad experiences at UoP. However, in some cases, you get out of the program, what you put into it.

Just my observations.

V. Palango
Univerisity of Phoenox, Class of 2004
[email protected]

 

If the personal bad experiences of past students of UoP doesn’t qualify as "valid reasons" why UoP is a crappy school, then what kinds of evidence would prove that UoP is a crappy school?

If not the personal experiences of so many students throughout the United States, then what?

Please name one regionally accredited four-year college that is worse that UoP.

Just one, even if it‘s anecdotal.

 

Maybe UoP representatives have been reading this forum and, subsequently, are ”tightening up” their coursework?

 

I'm sure that if this thread was about another school, you would get some negative opinions. I would/did choose UoP over many other DL schools. What I won't do here is criticize them because it may alienate some on this board. I am not so eager to be correct.

What we are dealing with here are matters of opinion or preference. Some would feel that UoP is a better school than others. I stated earlier that my experience with UoP was better than the B&M school I attended for the first part of my degree. This school is one of Americas top 100 best buys... www.mckendree.edu


What you claim is that UoP is a scam and when NCA exposes them, they are sure to go out of business. These are the type of comments that I think require substantiated evidence.


Either way, I have a degree from UoP, an MBA from a well-respected b&m college, and will be starting a PhD in March.

For me UoP worked out great.

 

Isn't this indicative of a good institution....one that responds to the needs and concerns of it consumers?

 

"me again,"

I won't mention names, but the initials are "I" and "C" and it is located in Florida.

This school has several campuses, including one in Sarasota. I am very close with an instructor that teaches there that tells me some students, who don't pull their own weight, pressure the instructors to get a passing grade. In most cases, this instructor tells me, the students get their wish.

I asked this individual about their new "online courses" and he told me they are looking at UoP as a model. It appears they think very highly of Phoenix.

Where did you go to school?


Alex

 

The UofP offers an alternative for people in many areas of the country due the convenience of their classes (one night a week in mini-mesters). They have a niche market.

There are many anecdotal stories from students and regarding profs. They may well have a ring of truth in them. I had an instructor tell me that the pressure was there to ensure students passed (ie no renewal of instructors contract if they did not).

My own feeling is that no you may not be talking about the equivalent of a good state college education but it does provide the graduate with an accredited degree. There are many jobs where that "union card" is required.

There is a spectrum within education. It is well known that in this area the community college education is not up to the same level as the University. This is why some students go there to take courses that would be troublesome for them at the University.
If we pull this out a little more, the authors of "The Bell Curve" argued about the disparity between the level of education and intellect at the Ivy leagues versus the garden variety state schools.

It would make an interesting study.

North

 

In the interest of accuracy, none of the US News top 20 are accredited by ACBSP. They are all accredited by AACSB, however.

Yes, potential students will have to draw their own conclusions, and having some additional background may help. It may also be helpful if you provided a little more information about the facts you state:

According to the UoP, the reason they use part-time "practitioner faculty," is to ensure that the students "get an effective blend of textbook theory and current application."* There doesn't appear to be anything sinister in that. And why, in your opinion, do faculty need to do the advising? How is using para-professionals as student advisors "less credible than using faculty?" UoP does employ full-timers, as well, and I suspect the reason for that is to provide continuity in curriculum development. Why do you think they are there?

UoP's for-profit status does not necessarily mean that its "20% or greater disadvantage" translates to deficient academic standards. Perhaps they make up for the disadvantage because they have to pay fewer full-time faculty. Perhaps there are other areas unrelated to academics where they make up for the difference. While it is fact that UoP is for-profit, do you have evidence the a 20% disadvantage affects academic quality there?

Tracy<><

*http://www.phoenix.edu/faculty/index.html

 

Re: One More Perspective

Yes, most schools do offer a few courses that may be an easy "A," and most students know about them. They also know the instructors that are the easiest graders. I remember, when I went to a brick-and-mortar in the mid '80s, having discussions in the dorms not only about which classes to take, but also which sections to try to get. It was pretty hard to get them, unless you were near the head of the line at the registration table.

I think that at the undergraduate level, B-school reputation isn't as important as it is at the MBA level, so I wouldn't suspect that a UoP undergrad degree would hold you back too much. It will almost certainly open more doors than not having a degree at all would.

Tracy<><