Affordable DL - Ph.D/DBA/Ed.D - Europe or Asia

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Tobe, Nov 16, 2019.

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  1. Pappas

    Pappas Member

    Stanislav, it seems you the one with the wisdom to recommend a DL Doctorate from Eastern (not in political terms but rather geography) part of Europe...any suggestions?
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    It can be referred to as one, but much less accurately than referring to it as an individual good.

    Considering that I didn't say any of that, your use of "intellectually dishonest" is pretty ironic. I would agree the idea is at the "acceptable" rather than "radical" position in the Overton window, I just recognize that the popularity of an idea has little at best to do with how good an idea it is.

    Pretending that I don't know there are people who get other people to pay for their higher education is worse than wrong; it's boring.
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    OK, so I'll play the Devil's Advocate. In some cases education can be seen as a public good but I really don't know if it's true in all cases. I'm not going to be terribly happy to have my tax money pay for you to go to law school when I know that we already have too many lawyers. Similarly for MBAs. Similarly for degrees in Underwater Basket Weaving (Levicoff''s favorite). You might be able to present a case for some really abstract benefit but I'm not sure there's any real objective, measurable benefit to society for simply pumping out more and more degree holders when the skill set involved in the degree is not actually something that society needs. As for those EU countries, most of the ones to which you're referring have those nice Democratic-Socialist governments and so it's really not even an "apples to apples" comparison.
     
  4. Pappas

    Pappas Member

    Definitely there are plenty of views on this...every coin has both sides..but in any case I would be more happy to know that my tax money go for someones education ....rather knowing that they go for military equipment/or war around the world. Just to play the devils advocate ;)
    So...is the Internet a public good? or Water? anyways ....this type of debates and point of views vary and...
    Now lets cut to the chase one more that I almost forgot about it
    https://www.eap.gr/en/educatio/137-education/1240-the-qualifications-the-hou-offers-
     
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    and I might agree with you in that instance but now we're talking about something else. We started out talking about the "public good" and now we're talking about what makes us happy. They are not necessarily the same thing.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  6. Pappas

    Pappas Member

    We are talking about "public good" that you and Steve claim should not be cause it comes from the tax payers money...so I raise the question what about your tax money going to military equipment or wars?Why you don't complain about that tax money? Is military equipment a public good for you? Bottom line I wonder why people have different measure when considering public good?
    And yes here is where the feeling comes into the game... ;) I hope this clarifies my point of view. But again there are plenty of them and they define us on how we see the world ;)


    It seems OP lost interest in the thread and the rest of posters dont have interest...
    Anyways i hope DL options mentioned here would be useful to someone...
    Said that, i still searching for a home for my second PhD...by publication ;)
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Yes it is.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Kizmet didn't claim that. And either way that's not the definition of a public good.

    I do, and much more vociferously than I complain about other uses of tax money.

    More like a public evil, at least with the particular missions the military is often given.

    That's the thing, it's not about feelings. The term actually means something specific in economics: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/public-good.asp

    Disagreements aside, I hope you find one! :)
     
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Pappas

    Pappas Member

    Thanks ...;)
     
  11. Pappas

    Pappas Member

     
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Framing. Having an infrastructure to provide people with opportunities based on things other than parent's wallet (ideally, merit) is good for society. I can probably write four paragraphs on how this fits definition of a public good. I don't doubt that you can argue the opposite; these may be just two sides of a coin.

    Nah, I would argue that most radical ideas are radical for a reason.

    These people are most of humanity, Steve. I can't think of even one country with full-on market-based higher ed system, let alone education system at large; in contrast, free public university systems are rather common (people like to cite Scandinavia, but it's actually most of Europe. Probably Asia too). Notion that full-on market would work better is empirically unsupported at best.
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Most schools I know don't run large-scale DL doctoral programs for foreigners. Philosophy program at Sophia U. in Bulgaria is one exception; I don't know it's current status. In most schools, doctoral admissions are highly individualized.

    For example, if you can convince a professor at U. of Tartu to take you up as an advisor and work remotely, you will be in a program that's both high quality and FREE. But there are very few people admitted every year, overwhelmingly Estonians. Same is true for other schools. If you had a well-formed research proposal in mind, it may not hurt to try pitch it to these schools.

    Outside of Eastern Europe, for some definitions of "affordable", Heriot-Watt University has a well-established DL program that has utterly nothing wrong with it.
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Probably. Bear in mind, though, that "public good" doesn't just mean "something funded by taxpayers that I think is good". It means something specific: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/public-good.asp

    I couldn't disagree more on this one. Ideas move around in the Overton window all the time. Much of what today's social democrats advocate was considered radical in the West in living memory. When you and I were young, being for marijuana legalization or marriage equality was radical. Hell, two centuries ago being for the abolition of slavery was considered radical.

    Perhaps, if one is unable to extrapolate from other privatized industries. But when it comes to the U.S. system, I'm not really animated about there being public institutions, and feel more strongly that I wish we could kill Title IV.
     
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    All true, Steve. But 3,000 years ago, Scythian horsemen in Ukraine smoked hemp for pleasure - as close to the good ganja as they could get. "The cops busted me" said no Scythian, - ever. And in pre-Christian Ireland, there was complete marriage equality - and equality in the workplace too. Women owned property in their own right, they could be judges, lawyers, whatever. It took Christianity to ruin all that.
     
    Phdtobe likes this.
  17. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Still. There is a good argument that having education system, on all levels, is infrastructure good that benefits all, not just students and graduates. Higher ed could be closer to the post office or public beaches, mentioned at your link as either public good or "near public good". Not that the argument for the opposite doesn't exist; I just do not fully buy it.

    Survival bias. This does not include many, many ideas that came from "radical" to fringe to gone because of how stupid they were. Like some Communists arguing, in all seriousness, for communal use of all women (for sex).
    Well, extremely novel observation is that we disagree on this. In general, extrapolation invites all kinds of fallacies. I am familiar with the theory that literally everything can be privatized and reduced to property rights and "free contract"; not convinced. It just seems like severe simplification that starts with reducing everything to economics - like Marxism, but to the opposite extreme. Seeing stuff through "relations of production" is Marx's idea.
     
  18. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    To be fair, "marriage equality" refers to access to marriage for gays and lesbians, an idea that was seen as radical not even a generation ago.
     
  19. Pappas

    Pappas Member

    True and usually this is the tricky part for anyone interested ;)
     
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry, my mistake. Of course it does. The pre-Christian Irish had many good ideas - including health care for everyone, hospitals, even separate mental institutions - but marriage for gays and lesbians was not among their good ideas, as far as I know.
     

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