A Sikh-American Soldier Won the Right to Serve with His Beard, Long Hair and Turban

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Abner, Apr 5, 2016.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Sorry about the confusion.

    I'm fine with anonymous posting, unless one of two things occur: (1) the poster insists that his/her personal experience is proof of something. It isn't. Of course long-time anonymous posters can build a great deal of credibility in what they say, but not because of who they are. (2) When someone hides behind a handle and flamethrows, especially at people who don't.

    You're a long-time poster here and what you write and say has credibility, again, because of the quality of your posts. (For example, you nailed the squadron section commander thingy.)

    I used to be a lot more strident against anonymous posting, but like my take on a lot of things, it has evolved overtime.
     
  2. major56

    major56 Active Member

    So now that Rich’s experience as a commander is downscaled to squadron section commander (Duty Title or Title of Additional Duty his Officer Performance Report (OPR) would designate, e.g., similar to a HQ company commander)) … per your experience; can you provide any known instances of an actual squadron section (his now presented actual duty position, e.g., HQ element officer) consisting of 600 and/or 900 squadron section strength? The number of personnel claimed by Rich as a their commander was my sole reason for more than questioning his claim; not as to whether or not he was a designated HQ /squadron section commander (first time to read such though).

    I consider that Rich patently presented the claim of operational command of highly inflated personnel numbers (600 and 900)—not going to give him a pass by just newly today reading about a short-lived /temporarily administrative command during the absence of the genuine squadron CO (e.g., while the commanding officer taking annual leave). Consider that Rich claimed (at minimum proffered the impression /idea of his commanding the actual units—personnel numbers likely larger than an AF full strength Squadron unit (LTC command billet)) … but closer to a Group (O-6 COL) /Wing (Gen. Officer) size units as though he were the actual commander vs only commanding a squadron section. He was not fully candid as to his commander claim … but insinuated otherwise in an effort to bolster his self-absorbed opinions. All in effort to try to nullify Bruce Tait’s offered experience to support his arguments. All very questionable conduct in my view; others can /will come to their own conclusions.

    Note: A squadron section should not be confused as a unit. For example … a Headquarters Section, while including squadron in their designations; are not squadrons; they are merely segments of units and, in the example of a Headquarters Squadron Section, a function responsible for the administrative control of members assigned to the unit Factsheets : Types of USAF Organizations.

    In both the Marine Corps and Army … a similar example would be a Headquarters and Headquarters Company (HCC) /Artillery Headquarters and Headquarters Battery (HHB) / Cavalry Squadron Headquarters and Headquarters Troop (HHT) within a Battalion/Squadron size unit (usually commanded by an O-3 Capt. /CPT. The HHC/HHB/HHT is made up of the headquarters staff and headquarters support personnel of a battalion, brigade, regiment, division, or higher level unit. As these personnel do not fall inside one of the regular line companies or batteries of the battalion, brigade, or division, the HHC is the unit to which they are administratively assigned. The typical personnel strength of an average HHC is 80 to 110 personnel. Consider that an AF squadron section might be similar in personnel numbers; but definitely not remotely near a 600 or 900 personnel TO&E manning table roster.

    The HHC itself will be commanded by a company, battery, troop commander (usually a captain (O-3)) who is supported by a company executive officer (usually a first lieutenant O-2) and a company first sergeant E-8. All personnel in the HHC/HHB/HHT fall under the administrative command of the HHC/HHB/HHT company commander, but in practice, the primary and special staff officers report directly to the battalion commander, and while the battalion commander is administratively assigned to the HHC, the commanding officer is the HHC company commander's senior commander and therefore the HHC company commander operationally answers directly to the battalion commander … or in Rich’s case … he was accountable to the actual squadron commander (O-5 LTC /O-4 MAJ). The mission of the HHC company commander is to run the administrative and soldier/marine training aspects of the HHC, and to support the battalion major staff by facilitating the environment in which they operate and in turn support the battalion commander in commanding the battalion.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headquarters_and_Headquarters_Company
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You don't know what you're talking about, yet you continue to talk. Additionally, the information necessary to correct this misperception (and all your others) has already been made available. Your Army examples are not relevant because they do not reflect what was happening. A squadron section commander had concurrent jurisdiction--he/she was in command of the entire squadron along with the squadron commander. But you're desire to be right--or to call me a liar--keeps you from accepting this simple concept. So you evoke irrelevant and untimely examples hoping this gets you by. But....

    The bottom line is that your research bias--leading with a desire to disprove something instead of proving something--caused you to start with a conclusion and hold onto it no matter what the countervailing evidence presented. This represents both a lack of critical thinking as well as poor (or nonexistent) research training. There's a cure for that.

    But your behavior in questioning my honor and veracity was despicable. You're disgusting. There's probably a cure for that, too.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2016
  4. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Rich never said he was a Squadron Commander. No one ever said Rich was a Squadron Commander. You are the one who seemed to be implying that O-3 Squadron Commanders were likely a rarity. You also, incorrectly it seems, stated that an O-2 could serve as the commander of a small squadron. What was done was provide evidence, from the USAF, that Squadron Commander selections are made from O-3 and up and the selection of O-3 as Squadron Commanders is not as rare as you would have led one to believe.

    Well, no, there isn't a "BIG" difference between a CO and an OIC in many cases. Both exercise command authority. An OIC, in the Navy at least, has authority to convene and preside over an Article 15 NJP (Captain's Mast). Their punishment authority is limited the lower the paygrade of the OIC, however. If I remember correctly (and I don't feel like looking it up) only O-4 and above can reduce enlisted paygrades, for example. Also, while less of an official distinction, when a CO presides over an NJP it is referred to as "Captain's Mast" (regardless of the rank of the CO) but when it is an OIC it is appropriately altered to be "OIC Mast."

    But it's still an NJP and having one on your record means you don't get a good cookie.

    But it's difficult to say, definitively, that OICs are drastically different from COs. The circumstances vary widely. A SEAL or EOD OIC exercises significantly more command authority, if we're looking at command autonomy, than a PSD OIC. A Seabee OIC may very well command just as many, or even more, sailors than the CO of certain small crafts or dependent commands.


    Again, you have zero proof of this. You're basing your arguments upon Army observations and Wikipedia articles. What's very clear is that you don't know what you're talking about and are vigorously insisting on doubling down on your accusations rather than crawling off to a cave and licking your wounds so you can fight another day.

    That's not what Rich said. Neither the Army nor the Navy really has a concept of concurrent command. But the Air Force does. It's one of the things I was alluding to when I spoke of the "weirdness" of USAF command. I've seen some absolutely peculiar positional authority on the AF side of the house that doesn't follow rank as tightly as it does in the Navy.

    But the fact that another major, this one with experience in the same branch, isn't immediately coming to your aid and supporting your assertion that Rich MUST be lying should really be an indicator to you that you might be talking out of your ass.

    Kind of like that time you tried to nullify my military experience by calling me a pogue?

    For an alleged officer you seem to have quite a bit of disdain for any veteran who disagrees with you, even if it is about a relatively minor issue.

    I have no problem with people being anonymous for the reasons you state. Any time I have taken issue with anonymous users it is because they are shilling or launching personal attacks.

    While there have been numerous issues I've disagreed with Rich on I am willing to sign my name to every single one of the things I've said to him. I respect him even if I disagree with him about the finer points of accreditation. Also, saying "I think Rich is wrong" is different from saying "I think Rich is a liar."

    If you're going to make such an accusation then I think one should at least exhibit the courage to do it under their real name. If you're going to heartily endorse a questionable skill I think you should exhibit the courage to do so under your real name and/or disclosing your connection to the school.

    To Major56's credit, I don't think he has ever outright claimed to be a major. I had taken the screen name to be a rank and possibly a birth year. But it could just as easily be a surname and a high school jersey number. But I've always found that people who lie about their rank seem to settle on O-4, anyway. It's high enough to be impressive but not so high that it is unbelievable.
     
  5. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Well, that escalated quickly.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    And then de-escalated immediately with no posts for the last 3 days.
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    I haven't been around. In the words of Carl Spackler, "I was unavoidably detained".
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    So I've got that going for me, which is nice.

    Now, get out there and kill all the golfers....uh, gophers.
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    "It's not my fault no one can understand what you're saying".

    That scene was especially funny for me, as all my grandparents came from the same town in Scotland.
     
  10. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I don't know how it is where you guys are but we went from frigid cold (snow last week) to beautiful weather in the 70's starting Friday. Way too nice to be hanging around here.

    "In the words of Jean-Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gophere!'"
     
  11. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Rich,

    As to your assertion that I don’t know what I’m talking about—I wonder if the Air Force Historical Research Agency (Maxwell Air Force Base) Air Force Historical Research Agency - Home has credibility (see TYPES OF USAF ORGANIZATIONS Non-units/squadron sections), e.g., Factsheets : Types of USAF Organizations. You’d have forum participants believe that the USAF has two co-existing commanding officers per operational unit. That’s an invalid notion and anyone who has served in any US military service knows this. You didn’t even hold a second-in-command authority position as a squadron section commander. In the USAF (for a squadron level organization) aren't those command positions typically termed “director of operations" or "operations officer" (DO)? Saying or inferring you commanded at the capacity level you have claimed is at minimum misleading. I can’t speak to the organizational command structure of the Russian air force … so maybe they have two equal/co-exiting commanding officers per operational unit. I’m sure that type setup wouldn’t cause any command clarity issues at all, e.g., unclear chain of command...

    As per a squadron section commander (re Air Force Historical Research Agency)—although a squadron section is labeled as a squadron; but in actuality … is only a segment of a unit, e.g., a HQ element responsible for the administrative control of members assigned to the unit. A squadron section can be created by appointing a squadron section commander (e.g., the commander's /CO’s designated representative acts for the senior commander in the commander's name—e.g., “By Direction”) on special orders (‘G’ series orders) re Terms That Apply to a Non Unit.

    Addressing your espoused concurrent jurisdiction argument as it relates to you being a commander (re concurrent jurisdiction involving military members subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)):

    The Senior Air Force Officer (SAFO) assigned to an organization that is present for duty and eligible to command is the commanding officer, e.g., authority to assume command. An exception to this rule rests in detachments and sections: an officer cannot assume command of a detachment or a section; commanders of detachments and sections must be appointed http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_ja/publication/afpd51-6/afpd51-6.pdf (p. 4).

    As a squadron section commander (HQ section/element officer) you could as an appointed (not assumed command commander) section commander, with published ‘G’-series orders—conduct Article 15 proceedings (non-judicial punishment (NJP) e.g., administratively, by the direction and authority of the squadron commanding officer discipline troops without a court-martial))—an administrative only authority delegated to you by the CO. Squadron section commander—the CO can appoint his/her delegate as their section commander. And only the Squadron commander (CO) can authorize ‘G’-series orders to be published. Some similarly exists with an Army or Marine Corps Company /Battery or HQ and headquarters company /battery/troop commanders also having NJP authority; nothing remarkable there—been there /done that. However and too … Army and MC battalion unit commanders possess full operational command authority … not simply section /administrative only authority re your USAF section commander assignment. Of course you didn’t bother disclosing such significant differences when you condescendingly pitched your vast commander experience reaction narrative to Bruce Tait’s reply that you actually drove a desk. And now that we get that you were a squadron section commander … Bruce did nail what your actual command experience was, e.g., driving a desk. That exposure likely pissed you off.

    Note that NJP punishments that can be imposed have restrictions as to what a company grade officer (O-3 and below) in contrast to what punishments can be imposed by a field grade officer (O-4 to O-6). Concurrent jurisdiction (authority delegated by the unit commanding officer means that two separate entities have the authority to perform the aforementioned actions—unless withheld by superior competent authority (re AFI 38-101). NOTE: If the unit commander terminates the administrative command authority of the squadron section commander, the squadron section reverts to unit administration, and the individual in charge becomes its chief. Nonetheless … concurrent jurisdiction does not equate you co-existing, as you imply, paralleling the squadron commanding officer’s level of command authority (accordingly … your duty title appointment as squadron section commander vs commanding officer. Even your section appointment, along with, delegated Article 15 punitive authority as a company grade officer (O-3)—your NJP authority would have been subordinate to NJP punishments that could be imposed by a field grade officer (O-4 to O-6). That authority level of the section commander would be delegated (proxy) by and served at the convenience of the CO. So for you to stretch the notion (give the impression) that the USAF has two co-existing /equal authority commanding officers per unit is disingenuous—not even the same maximum permissible punishments can be imposed (e.g., field grade officer vs company grade levied punishments). You exploit the term concurrent jurisdiction as though it authorizes concurrent command of the unit’s full personnel strength (e.g., 600 and 900 airmen). Again that’s simply more deception via exaggerating the level of command you claim holding vs what you held (e.g., limited to administrative duties).

    “I did serve as a commander in Korea. Just 600 men and women. It was only 900 at Nellis. No one shooting at us, but hardly "driving a desk" (R Douglas).

    I question your veracity, even anonymously, in that you initially claim or at a minimum … insinuate being the commander of both a 600 and 900 personnel size units—whereas you were given /delegated UCMJ /NJP authority (an administrative function) by the CO (SAFO /Squadron commander)—by his/her authority re concurrent jurisdiction. Moreover, in that a lot of paperwork is routine, and therefore doesn’t necessarily necessitate needing the commanding officer’s (CO’s) particular attention, other than the fact that the squadron commander is responsible to sign it. The squadron commander provided you with an opportunity to gain administrative command authority experience—nothing more. In the Army or Marine Corps battalion level commands; such administrative duties (e.g., primary responsibility for most all personnel support matters) are regularly handled by an S-1 staff officer (O-3 Capt. or O-2 1Lt /an adjutant). So basically, you were comparable to an S-1 adjutant with delegated limited administrative /Article 15s /non-judicial punishment (concurrent jurisdiction) level authority, and likely some additional admin duties (the CO’s exclusive decision to make, delegate, expand, limit, or rescind).

    Your ego and quick-trigger emotion (low EI /EQ) got in the way of common sense and self-constraint. My view—you just had to put down Bruce Tait because of his conclusions re the possible adverse effects (troop morale and/or mission execution) to good order and discipline within the ranks re gays in the military. His positions did not agree with yours … so, you exaggerated your military (administrative only duties /command authority) experience by using personnel numbers as though they were yours to operationally /tactically command vs his (Bruce) being merely a troop in your egotistical view. Obviously you consider that his and anyone else’s views that don’t primarily parallel your own partialities … to not be nearly as relevant as yours. Plus he likened your duties to being a desk-officer. Recall that you’ve offered your mea culpa (short lived contrition’s) re this particular character flaw on several occasions through the years.

    As Bruce suggested … in effect drove a desk during your officer military career; in your case an administrative staff officer position with limited (due to your O-3 Capt. rank/grade per UCMJ) concurrent jurisdiction Article 15 privileges. There’s nothing wrong with that. What is wrong though … is your initial commander narrative of as though you actually commanded, by Duty Title—squadron units of 600 and 900 airmen as an O-3 Capt. That’s where the rubber meets the road. Didn’t happen—in that you, at a minimum, also infer that your concurrent jurisdiction /co-existing commander experience as somehow equally parallels the Squadron CO’s (SAFO) authority /command level authority—even bypassing the second-in-command commander. Overreaching by claiming or even implying recognition for military duty; in this instance … command level assignments not held at the authority level claimed, whether openly espoused or even suggested, hits a definite cord with me … anonymous or not.

    The inflated personnel number's embellishment and lack of accurate disclosure regarding the actual commander position you held (administrative /personnel officer (HR)), along with your ballooned self-perception is the rub with me. But of course, I appreciate that your ego just won’t allow any better behavior—I recognize that. Nonetheless … you were called out. Then again … others (if they so choose) can/will make their own assessment of your reliability re your candor or lack thereof /deception.

    And lastly Rich … my anonymity doesn’t invalidate my arguments as to your measure of veracity as regards your commander level command experience … merely because you say or think so—silly notion.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You can have the last word. I have no use for you.
     
  13. major56

    major56 Active Member

    "That's not what Rich said" (Neuhaus).

    You’re correct … he didn’t. What he did however state:

    “I did serve as a commander in Korea. Just 600 men and women. It was only 900 at Nellis."

    Neuhaus,

    Didn’t nullify your Navy service—not possible; yet, in my view, you were out of your element (e.g., never serving in a line unit of any kind) as regards the SGT Bergdahl desertion and misbehavior before the enemy charges (general court-martial) thread. Nonetheless, I could/should have handled that better. For that I do apologize. And that has rubbed you ever since, e.g., your ongoing jabs as to me being former MAJ vs LTC. Heck, I wasn’t even a COL or General Officer either. Did pull a duty assignment as an aide-de-camp (ADC) to a division commander (MG) … would that count for anything? Likely not per your level of understanding…

    “To Major56's credit, I don't think he has ever outright claimed to be a major. I had taken the screen name to be a rank and possibly a birth year. But it could just as easily be a surname and a high school jersey number. But I've always found that people who lie about their rank seem to settle on O-4, anyway. It's high enough to be impressive but not so high that it is unbelievable” (Neuhaus).

    Not that my military era rank/grade has actually mattered whatsoever for a very long time in my life, yet I’ll anonymously offer this (could not care less if you believe it or not—attempt to believe this though … it means nothing to me whatsoever to have you off- /or onboard with any of this. I’ll simply choose to at least make some attempt to humor you in that per you and Rich’s self-serving perspectives—in that anonymity basically invalidates all):

    1. Served in the military for 12-years (four as a USMC artillery officer (0802); inter-service transferred to the US Army (served 8-more years in an artillery officer MOS (13A)). Original commission source—OCS MCB, Quantico, VA.
    2. Held two Commissions (not simultaneously; that’s illegal)—along with two Honorable Discharges (USMC and Army) … well in full disclosure actually three, in that, I was also Discharged as an E-5 Sergeant (as an officer candidate, I was paid as an E-5 under 2-yrs.) upon being offered and accepting a Commission as a 2ndLt in the USMC upon completion of OCS. Two years later; promoted to 1stLT (USMC). Two years later inter-service transferred; promoted to CPT (US Army). Four years later; promoted to MAJ (actually promoted ahead of my peer group (below-the-zone (BZ) /accelerated promotion))—minimum time in grade (4-years at that time) as a CPT allowed under Title 10 U.S.C § 619 (promoted to MAJ during my 8th year of commissioned service).
    3. Left the Army as a 0-4 MAJ with 3-years in grade.
    4. My choice to leave the Army … e.g., somewhat bored with military life in general (and nothing adversely directed at either the Marine Corps or Army): Deployments /family separations, PCS orders, duty station assignments, along with having more profitable opportunities external the military. Consider this if you want (and again I truly don’t care one way or the other regarding your belief /disbelief Neuhaus). Merely a FYI: I had already punched the necessary tickets to make LTC—again, as to whether you personally believe or disbelieve is of no importance to me. Even so, I simply resolved that the next promotion rank/grade (LTC/O-5) was largely irrelevant regarding my overall career goals and future plans in general—opting to ETS as a MAJ. In retrospect … the additional 8-years (20-years for retirement purposes) might have been somewhat beneficial generally. Doesn’t matter in the least now … all history.
    5. In that I post via anonymity … just ignore my disclosures even my signature line. And due to my anonymity … none of it would be truthful anyway … would it?
    6. What is/was your claimed rank sailor? Just meddling, you certainly don’t need to answer … I really don’t care one way or the other about that either. It's of no significance to me at all…

    Concerning your comment as to whether or not another MAJ or even adding LT CMDR comes to support my observations … perhaps there are not any other ones who participate with DegreeInfo. I would have no way of knowing (and I’ve been a participating member here since 2007)—and of course … neither do you (merely aboard since 2014). Conversely though, no Majors have come forward to contest my arguments either—only USAF Capt. (Ret) Rich and the tag-team member you. Perhaps you don’t necessarily believe his claims either re your earlier comment, e.g., “I don't care whether Rich is telling the truth about his particular duty assignment or whether any embellishment was added does not impact the point he was making…”—a revealed reckless rational per my observation. And of course … you couldn’t care less re my observations. As to you, I too have an appreciation for such…

    Neuhaus, consider trying to get off the … you don’t have an appreciative for member anonymity as it really doesn’t matter … you merely dovetail Rich’s rancor. At least demonstrate some effort to think for yourself (try to offer some originality vs Rich’s parrot). I don’t care whatsoever as to whether either of you do/don’t approve of my personal decision, along with most all forum members, including some moderators, to remain anonymous—so what.
     
  14. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    He did. And you took issue with that by first arguing that the only possible way that could be would have been if Rich had been a Squadron Commander which you felt unlikely due to his grade. However, as has been pointed out, the USAF does have O-3 Squadron Commanders.

    When it was clarified that Rich was a Squadron Section Commander you tried to treat it as an "Aha!" moment. But Rich never said he was a Squadron Commander. This entire post you seem to be arguing that Rich wasn't a CO or that Rich had to answer to a CO and therefore, wasn't in command. But, as I re-read all of this, and with the quote you just shared, Rich only ever said he was a commander. And that's a title given him by the Air Force. The problem here is that you came through the door at full speed with accusations flying. Then you tried to shame the other vets on the board into "calling out" the stolen valor.

    I think you were mad. I think you disagreed with what Rich said and so you came out arms swinging rather than getting additional information first.

    It hasn't actually "rubbed" me (badly or otherwise) at all. I am simply pointing out that the thing you seem so indignant over is something that you, yourself, have done. Interestingly, you also felt that Rich was trying to negate Bruce's service. I disagree. Bruce is the one who told Rich that his experience wasn't relevant. That he, to borrow your words, was "out of his element." Rich simply asserted a position that he understood what it means to command others and understands the value of good order and discipline.




    “To Major56's credit, I don't think he has ever outright claimed to be a major. I had taken the screen name to be a rank and possibly a birth year. But it could just as easily be a surname and a high school jersey number. But I've always found that people who lie about their rank seem to settle on O-4, anyway. It's high enough to be impressive but not so high that it is unbelievable” (Neuhaus).

    Not that my military era rank/grade has actually mattered whatsoever for a very long time in my life, yet I’ll anonymously offer this (could not care less if you believe it or not—attempt to believe this though … it means nothing to me whatsoever to have you off- /or onboard with any of this. I’ll simply choose to at least make some attempt to humor you in that per you and Rich’s self-serving perspectives—in that anonymity basically invalidates all):

    1. Served in the military for 12-years (four as a USMC artillery officer (0802); inter-service transferred to the US Army (served 8-more years in an artillery officer MOS (13A)). Original commission source—OCS MCB, Quantico, VA.
    2. Held two Commissions (not simultaneously; that’s illegal)—along with two Honorable Discharges (USMC and Army) … well in full disclosure actually three, in that, I was also Discharged as an E-5 Sergeant (as an officer candidate, I was paid as an E-5 under 2-yrs.) upon being offered and accepting a Commission as a 2ndLt in the USMC upon completion of OCS. Two years later; promoted to 1stLT (USMC). Two years later inter-service transferred; promoted to CPT (US Army). Four years later; promoted to MAJ (actually promoted ahead of my peer group (below-the-zone (BZ) /accelerated promotion))—minimum time in grade (4-years at that time) as a CPT allowed under Title 10 U.S.C § 619 (promoted to MAJ during my 8th year of commissioned service).
    3. Left the Army as a 0-4 MAJ with 3-years in grade.
    4. My choice to leave the Army … e.g., somewhat bored with military life in general (and nothing adversely directed at either the Marine Corps or Army): Deployments /family separations, PCS orders, duty station assignments, along with having more profitable opportunities external the military. Consider this if you want (and again I truly don’t care one way or the other regarding your belief /disbelief Neuhaus). Merely a FYI: I had already punched the necessary tickets to make LTC—again, as to whether you personally believe or disbelieve is of no importance to me. Even so, I simply resolved that the next promotion rank/grade (LTC/O-5) was largely irrelevant regarding my overall career goals and future plans in general—opting to ETS as a MAJ. In retrospect … the additional 8-years (20-years for retirement purposes) might have been somewhat beneficial generally. Doesn’t matter in the least now … all history.
    5. In that I post via anonymity … just ignore my disclosures even my signature line. And due to my anonymity … none of it would be truthful anyway … would it?[/QUOTE]
    [/QUOTE]

    I never said that anonymous posters were automatically liars. But I do take issue with anonymous posters hurling accusations at others here. It's the internet version of talking behind someone's back. If you have something to say then say it while looking the person you accused in the eye.

    As stated elsewhere in this thread and on this forum, Personnelman Second Class (E-5).

    Well, firstly, if your accusations held as much water as you feel they do then I'm shocked that another USAF Officer came into this thread and didn't immediately jump on board patting you on the back while denouncing Rich. Didn't happen though.

    And while I'm not a fan of "stolen valor" my comment was meant to illustrate that you jumped into the middle of a conversation to levy irrelevant accusations against someone. particularly when that accusation, even if true, did not actually negate the point that Rich was making. Rich made a comment about troop morale. The only reason Rich's command experience came up at all is because Bruce seems to carry two standard weapons "I'm a combat vet, you're not, so shut up" and "I'm a cop, you're not, so shut up." Whether Rich embellished his service has very little to do with his authority to offer opinions on troop morale in general.

    Virtually every thread where Rich and I interact we disagree. We have disagreed very bitterly and very publicly. We disagree about many, many things. The only time where I have ever "dovetailed" with anything Rich has said was in this forum. So please, tell me where, outside of this thread, I have ever "tag-teamed" with Rich before rather than arguing against him. Or was that just another baseless accusation? I'm truly curious if you are intentionally making stuff up or if it's some sort of survival mechanism.
     
  15. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator Staff Member

    A few points:

    1) Being on the squadron commander selection list does not guarantee that a person is going to be a squadron commander. It is the list that they pull from for the openings, not the list of people actually receiving assignments.

    2) The ranks on the list you provided aren't 100% accurate which is most likely due to the date the info was pulled for the board. There are a very small number of Captains on the current list and most of them are Major selects or have already pinned on Major as of today.

    Beyond that, I also notice that the people listed as Captains come from a very tiny number of career fields and almost entirely from two very specific career fields. This summer marks 22 years on Active Duty with the Air Force and I haven't seen anything other than Majors and Lt Cols as squadron commanders. If there is an actual squadron commander Captain billet out there, it is extremely rare and I am very curious to see what type of unit it is if it actually exists.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2016
  16. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    It was in the 70's here today, but I worked the overnight so I slept through most of it.

    In case anyone was wondering, a skinny guy from Africa won the Boston Marathon.
     
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    More specifically, and more spectacularly, the Ethiopians swept the medals for the first time in history. It was a beautiful day in Boston but probably just a bit warmer than the runners would have wanted. Also, it was the third anniversary of the Boston Marathon Bombings and interestingly enough, they were filming movies of the marathon bombing (starring Mark Wahlberg and Jake Gyllenhaal)

    Boston Marathon Bombing Movies Filmed During Monday Race - ABC News
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2016
  18. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Could it be that the last words as to your integrity discrepancies have already occurred? And as to whether [you] have no use for me

    Allow me to further reply to your quick-tempered announcement: You have no use for anyone that would question and consequently expose you. So you’re angry because of the negative publicity and credible embarrassment. You and you alone, placed yourself in that untenable position re your exaggerated commander level assertions as an O-3 Capt. E.g.,

    “I did serve as a commander in Korea. Just 600 men and women. It was only 900 at Nellis. No one shooting at us, but hardly "driving a desk" (R. Douglas).

    Rich … you have not presented any valid answers (NONE) that will contradict what I presented that would counter the arguments as to your embellished commander claims. You’ve offered nothing persuasive that would refute the obvious veracity gaps. Seemingly there’s no credible self-defense available to you on this one ... re your emotionally charged comeback "You can have the last word. I have no use for you." That’s the real alpha and the omega. Even your further claim to be the commander, e.g., while your commanding officer was on annual leave is suspect … as the second-in-command authority (operations officer /DO) would provisionally assume that squadron command operational authority /responsibility level (by TO&E more likely an O-4 Major) … not you as a squadron section commander (e.g., admin /personnel officer (O-3 Capt.)).

    Note: During my 12-year military service … I never witnessed any occasion with both the commanding officer and second-in-command (e.g., executive officer /XO re USMC and Army) taking concurrent annual leave. Maybe that too is a Russian air force operational chain-of-command practice…

    Here’s my personal bottom-line on this:

    Commissioned officers (current or former) do not /should not lie, cheat or steal … or tolerate those who do. Embellishing one’s military service record (command level authority /personnel numbers) would definitely fall within those confines. So let me turn this around on you Rich … at this interval and only speaking for me, and unlike your temperamental proclamation …mine is not proposed as a final decree regarding your fabricated command level (commander) claims—yet maybe I should have no use for you. But wishing to remain optimistic … maybe you’ll consider adapting some positive behavior changes. You may want to contemplate beginning with an apology to the forum members for your inflated military commander claims along with some authentic remorse while integrating actual constructive conduct change this time around...

    Nonetheless, history would indicate that sort of action doubtful to occur re to date nothing so far …
     
  19. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm not going to pretend I know anything about Squadron Commanders. The Navy operates a different system.

    That aside, let me ask you this, as major has noted:

    “I did serve as a commander in Korea. Just 600 men and women. It was only 900 at Nellis. No one shooting at us, but hardly "driving a desk" (R. Douglas).

    Major, evidently, feels that this was wildly inaccurate and feels comfortable calling Rich a liar and demanding an apology from him for lying about his service.

    My question is, would it be inappropriate for a Squadron Section Commander to, in a context like what Rich said, say "I was a commander?"

    In the Navy, there are certain weirdnesses with commands. "Commander" can refer to a position in some limited situations as can "Captain." But both of those are also actual ranks.

    A Recruit Division Commander (E-5 through E-8 in practice) certainly has the title "Commander" in their position at that time. But it would be inappropriate for that individual to say "I was a commander..."

    So, I think it would pretty much settle the issue, is it inaccurate or inappropriate for a Squadron Section Commander to, after the fact, say "I was a commander?"

    Because major's assertions about commanding officers and executive officers are really irrelevant otherwise. Rich never said he was a CO or an XO. He said he was a commander. So if that follows the norms of the USAF then, one can quibble over the size of the men he says he commanded, though it seems that in certain situations it wouldn't at all be inappropriate, there doesn't seem to be a lie; just a belligerent Army vet spouting off about something he doesn't understand.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2016
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yes. You're just an anonymous cyber-bully who tries to cover up his ignorance with verbiage.

    My integrity is quite intact, thank you. I hope you will be able to say the same some day.
     
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