A Little Exaggeration

Re: Re: Andy, how is it different....

I disagree strongly. I can point to many excellent DL programs in the USA. At the same time, I can point to many B&M schools that have real problems many of them shouldnt even be operating.

I often read comments in the CHE from B&M prof's who routinely inflate grades to keep students happy. As an adjunct, there is a lot of pressure to do it and it is one of the reasons I would never become a full time academic.

As a full time professor you also operate in an environment where academics feel the pressure of the competition from DL programs. I would bet that plays a lot into your views.......

 

Not just a DL\For Profit school issue

Grade Inflation: It's Not Just an Issue for the Ivy League

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/perspectives/perspectives2004.June.htm

And
http://www.gradeinflation.com/

 

Oy vey! So now we have an official "Grade Price Index." How do we tell whether this is really from grades being too easy to get these days? As opposed to the possibility that maybe today's kids are just smarter than their parents and grandparents?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

I'm confused. What does it have to do with admission standards?

Here in U. S., there is an open-admission path to college education, namely the community college. Everybody who bothered to pick up their high school diploma (from my understanding, this means the kid was in school for 10 years and did not cause too much trouble) has the right to TRY to EARN the right to a BA, while not wasting too much time. It seems only natural to me that the same might work at the master's level. ESPECIALLY for working adults. Hey, they did get their bachelors, didn't they?

Of course, this means universities ought actually flunk non-performing students.

 

Re: Not just a DL\For Profit school issue

One school I know has had to raise the GPA for "high honors" to 3.75 (from 3.5) because too many students were earning the distinction - to the point that it didn't mean anything.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

But flunking students out isn't common in the commodity DL world. If students pay their money - they expect to graduate.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

That sounds like the problem.

Admittedly, my own experience with DL is limited. My wife seems to work a lot for her courses at LSU ant UCLA Extension. Do you have data?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

I'm not sure what "grade inflation" is. Since my first graded report card back in Fall Semester 1974 at Columbia Junior High School in Brooklyn, Michigan, "A" meant 90%-100% of the information was absorbed (excellent), "B" meant 80%-89% of the information was absorbed(good), "C" meant 70%-79% of the information was absorbed(fair or average), "D" meant 60%-69% of the information was absorbed (poor but passable), and "E" or "F" meant 0%-59% of the information was absorbed (failing).

The problem is not one of open admissions. You simply establish the requirements of the course, grade the papers, exams, etc., and let the chips fall where they may, regardless of whether "ohmygod, my employer will cut off my tuition benefits" or "ohmygod, the GSL people will refuse me new student loans and call in my old student loans" or "ohmygod, Daddy will at least dump me off the gravy train or maybe even kill me." These people presumably knew what the consequences of various possible grades were with respect to their financial benefactors, they were supposedly literate enough to read the syllabus which you provided, and so presumably they knew how to get whatever they deemed to be a good enough grade. And they did whatever work, which deserves whatever grade, and that they should get, regardless of whatever Daddy or GSL people or employer or any other money tree might do to them.

 

Reply to Ted

Ted - This sounds great - in theory. But when a lowly paid adjunct faces a real groups of savvy students what happens? Adjuncts learn quick that lots of high grades is the easiest road to travel.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Reply to Ted

Andy: Are you really trying to tell me that, should I someday get myself admitted to a DBA, DM, or PhD Business program, and should that be at the same university you happen to be teaching at, if I were to get a bad grade, I could write on the professor evaluation form: "Dr. Borchers is a (bleep!) because he gave me a bad grade!" and the university would actually listen to such crap?

 

Re: Re: Reply to Ted

I'd defer to Andy on this one but my overall sense is that if you are a student who pays their bill in full and who also happens to be employed by a large company that has recently made a generous donation to the university then you might get a substantial amount of slack from the school. If you're some poor unconnected schmoe who is always looking for big-time financial aid then you might wind up talking to the Dean (and not a pleasant chat, at that). Money talks.
Jack

 

Re: Re: Reply to Ted

Sometimes, yes. Some schools (both DL and B&M) and administartors have become pretty "customer focused". Good administrators will support faculty when students make false charges. But there are a lot of administators in the DL business that aren't all that good and who pay a lot of attention to noisy students.

Think about it from the adjuncts position - they are paid to teach the course and nothing else. After you've been teaching a while it is natural to find ways to simplify your efforts and minimize controvery. So, if I'm reading a paper and I think it has been plagiarized, I could spend time searching for the source and then confront the student - or I could rationalize, "I'm not paid to be a cop - life will be easier for me if I just move on give this student a so-so grade".

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Reply to Ted

Well, I am paid to be a cop, but that's besides the point.

Seriously, I teach because I enjoy it, but I could make much better money by working overtime. When I started teaching, I decided that I wasn't going to compromise my principles to make a buck.

I'll deal with some things that I somewhat disagree with, like team projects, but academic integrity is non-negotiable. I have the usual cop's ability to assess someone with minimal information, so if I suspect plagiarism, I'll track that down with ruthless efficiency.

I have no tolerance for cheats, so I have no problem at all reporting those students, as well as giving an "F" grade for the plagiarized work. If my employers want to fire me as a result, then so be it. I don't want to work for a school that tolerates cheating, anyway.

 

Re: Re: Reply to Ted

Take a look at some of the comments at:

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/index.jsp

I can just guess as to what some of the evals look like!

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Reply to Ted

Bruce - I share your feelings - but I suspect we're in the minority.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Reply to Ted

I think qualititative evaluations are great, but once you start up putting numbers up it gets really problematic. I've used ratemyprofessors.com before and found it to be very helpful. There's a lot of complete drek on there, but even that can be helpful. A typical evaluation might be "Ms smith TOTALLY SUCKZ!!!! her assignments are impossible!!!! her lipstick is tacky!!!" balanced with something like "Ms. Smith is a challenging teacher, and uses really original ways of approaching the subject". That tells me that the teacher is hell on bad students but good for someone who really wants to learn.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Reply to Ted

My favorite teacher at FSU only has a 1.3 out of 5.0 rating. I also wonder why one of the three ratings is how easy their courses are.

I AM JUST SO FRICKIN TIRED OF STUDENTS LOOKING FOR EASY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There I got it out of my system. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reply to Ted

Not at all. I agree with you. I also looked over those rankings and was shocked to see that harder teachers of mine, those with who I learnt the most, were basically ridiculed by some moronic, ignorant "students". As a matter of fact, profesor should feel complimented when they receive such reviews.

 

It was an interesting website full of useful information, like the ease scale and the witty and useful comments. Most importantly, it contained a "hotness" scale, just the information an aspiring young college student needs in order to create their academic roadmap for success.

William