A Little Exaggeration

And as I like to point out, so are some of the not so great ones!

On a serious note, what would your opinion of NCU be if they achieved ACBSP accreditation ?

I read at the NCU forum that some students are pushing for ACBSP. Would it be worth it?

 

Re: Re: One More Thought

I don't know if it would make a blimp of difference. Argosy and DeVry are/were using GRE & Miller tests for some of their grad programs without much recognition from anyone. I don't think GMATS were ever used in their business programs. Besides, the test itself has a long history of mixed results predicting academic success in grad school.

I doubt that the quality of the programs at NCU would need to change for it to get more respect (other than making courses 3-4 months long). The two things that would make the B&M schools breathe easier is if NCU became non-profit (or tax-exempt) and had a more selective admission process.

Sulla

 

... and while doing that, they still require people to pay 250 bucks to GMAC. C'mon, Andy - THAT'S clearly the purpose of GMAT requirement at lesser AACSB schools.

 

Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

I think "open admissions" DL schools serve a useful purpose - kind of like community colleges at the masters level. It would be nice to ALSO maintain academic standards, so that the outcomes would be more in line with "selective" schools. I'm not prepared to judge if it is the case now.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

Some are and some are not at the academic level of the average B&M schools. Academic standards can also mean many things to many people. Business programs with a more applied knowledge angle are scoring higher with employers who have become tired of the book-smart MBA grads. And respect from employers is what newly grads looking for jobs in the real world want. Respect from academics is of minor importance unless you want to teach at research I universities.

Unfortunately, over 80% of students today IMO seem more interested in attending college because it is the thing to do and it equals getting a job and making money in the competitive world. Some of this is can be a bit sad, since in the old days education was more for people who had a stronger interest in enlightnment and the beaty of learning. For-profits are targeting this nitch of and I don't see nothing wrong with this. Often, IMO the for-profit B&M schools have become more efficient and better at preparing many students for the workforce than the antiquated non-profits as evidenced by: better rapport with local employers; higher placement rates for their students; more individualized attention for each student & more attention to changes in market demands.

What I find wrong is that the RA accreditting agencies fail to make clear lines of demarcation between universities and real-job professional schools. There should also be a difference in the nomenclature of the degrees awarded by universities and training schools. Bachelors, Masters, and PhDs are titles that should be protected by the government and only allowed to be used by registered universities. Professional schools (wether for-profit or not) can come up with their own professional names for their degrees or use existing ones such as the PsyD for doctorate degrees in psychology.

In sum, I think that students who are more motivated by learning per se & also want an education with a stronger emphasis in academic research are the ones that should attend universities. Those who just want to get a career and only learn the tools that are required to get there, should go to RA training schools and get their professional degrees instead.

Sulla

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

Hmm. And what titles would professional schools use in lieu of "Bachelors" and "Masters" if only "registered" universities could use such titles?

 

Andy, how is it different....

in many B&M schools? It isn't and I have seen it first hand. The Army actually has a program that teaches ROTC graduates of some B&M schools basic communications skills. How ridiculous is that?

You point at DL and act like DL is the problem. It isn't because it is a problem in many B&M schools as well. Some of the smaller liberal arts colleges with lesser reputations will let just about anyone in that is willing to pay their inflated tuition. I have seen it personally....

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

Before Herriot-Watt became a university it awarded "associateships". After being elevated to university status, those who had received associateships were given the choice to convert it to an honours degree.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

Spinsters and Matrons?

I've been told that feminists in the countries of the Romance languages do not object to gender designations like 'le' and 'la' except when used in professional context.

I agree with Stanislav that the open admissions policies serve a purpose in filling an educational niche.

 

Re: Andy, how is it different....

I totally agree that the problem isn't just DL. Some B&M schools have these problems - others don't. One concern I do have is that we don't have many stellar examples of DL - at least not in the U.S.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

I have a problem with this concept - what does it mean to hold a "masters" degree in a subject? The very degree label suggests a degree of mastery of a subject. Open admissions at the graduate level really devalues the degree.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Andy, how is it different....

Have you a rating of older programs like that of Ohio University?

 

I am 100% in favor of this. If any school will submit their program to professional accreditation by a reputable accreditor - such as ACBSP, it is a good step forward.

In my expeience, professional accreditation puts the administration of a school on notice that they have be concerned with outcome assessment, faculty quality, curriculum and a host of other things.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

Actually, when the Seven Sisters (women's colleges founded in the nineteenth century) were still new, the Maid of Arts was a commonly-used designation for the undergraduate degree. Imagine that! Women got an MA for no more effort than that for which men got a mere BA.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

Andy: I'm not sure that the problem lies in open admissions policies at the master's level. Rather, I think that, if there is a problem with some people don't master the subject, then the faculty and regents of the university ought make those people masters.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One More Thought

Ted - the problem as I see it is that in the U.S. admission to a degree program effectively means that you can earn the degree - as long as you don't quit trying. Flunking a student out, although done in some traditional B&M schools and definitely done outside the U.S., isn't common in the US DL world.

Regards - Andy

 

Andy,
I did smile a little when I read your "exaggeration" because, though I love online teaching, I can think of at least one student, or situation you mentioned that has happened at least one time throughout the three years I have been doing this. To me, the worst was the teacher going for his Master's degree, who informed me the first week he'd be late with his assignments but this HAS never happened in his previous courses and he doesn't want me to think he will ever be late again. Well, he was habitually late and even failed the last course I had him in because he did not turn in the final assignments.

I have only had one or two do this, but it really gets me when a student is not happy with the grade and tells me "I have a 4.0 and I don't want to lose it with this course!" Or worse, a student who told me that she didn't have time to do her work because she was doing the work for her principal who was also taking a course and asking her to do his or her assignments for them! I just thought, "I'm not really reading this, am I?" I didn't know her principal or whether the story was true so I decided there was nothing for me to pursue ethically other than to simply not give her any additional time to get work in. She managed to get a C in one course with me and failed another. As for the one with the C, she begged for a B stating she needed it to stay in the college. Well, this is not my problem! But the two cases that take the cake would have to be a teacher, yes a school teacher, emailed to tell me that she could not do her work because the dog ate her video! She was dead serious. I gave her time to get a new video.

I teach undergrad math at another college. Here the excuses are far more plentiful and I get some students who should never be admitted to the college because they don't understand how much work or repsonsibility they will have. Anyway, once a student asked me to scan 20 pages of the text book and email it to her because her "dog chewed her book." I refused and told her to buy a new book. Now if this sounds like complaining, I am not! These instances are rare and I can laugh at most of them! If you want a frustrating job, try teaching high school with a class of kids who don't want to learn and have never learned anything about respect or consideration. The last year I taught high school, I was teaching online as well, establishing myself so I could quit my former job. I got up at 3:30 AM every day that year because it was the only way I could get my work done for that job and teaching online too. One morning this 10th grade boy came strolling into algebra class like he did almost every day 2 to 10 minutes late. I did report him and he got after school detention every so often for this but nothing stopped the behavior which was totally disruptive. On this particular morning perhaps I was tired and in a bad mood. He came in making noise and plopping into his seat ten minute late, disrupting the lesson, and then turned around to loudly ask the kid behind him for something to write with. That was when I lost it enough to say, "At least you could bring a pencil with you to class if you are going to be late!" This rude kid said, "If you had to get up at 6:30 AM , you'd forget your pencil too! I said not a word, but I did make a mental note of the time I got up that morning and the fact I was there with not only a pencil but everything else that I needed to do the job. I was thinking this is it, I am going to quit this job as soon as I am able!

 

Thanks Suelaine for your post - Here is another comment I get sometimes - on-ground as well as on-line - "I need a grade of X in order to receive 100% tuition reimbursement from corporation Y".

My take is this - I award grades based on the expectations set in my syllabus. I refuse to be influenced by the students reimbursement situation.

Regards - Andy

 

Hi Andy - Good thread.
A few weeks ago I was involved in a thread related to the first (anywhere in the USA) 100% DL Masters degree program in Social Work. It was out of Florida State (IIRC). People who earn an MSW degree are eligible for licensure in the relevant state and there are reciprocity agreements between most states. Because of this, standards are generally quite high. I had a short email exchange with an administrator of this program and they were quite enthusiastic about this new development within the field. I think thisis an example of a program that qualifies under the criteria you've mentioned.
Jack

 

Re: Re: Re: A Little Exaggeration

The no GMAT requirement would include almost all European and Australian graduate business schools. The lack of GMAT cannot be taken as a quality measurement as this is mainly an american invention.


As for Aussie DL schools, most schools could be considered DL as the vast majority offer DL programs so you are including here all Aussie schools while the threads here in this board have been mainly concerned about one school in particular. Saying that all schools are in water these days is like saying that all american schools are bad because few have problems.