$347,000 in student debt who can't land a job...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by AsianStew, Jul 17, 2022.

Loading...
  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Kids aren't pawns to move around the board to coerce a non-custodial parent into paying. Regardless of who has custody, it's good for kids to see their parents, and that benefit to the child is more important than whatever bad things may be going on financially.
     
    Dustin likes this.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yeah. It is. I don't support it nearly to the extent it's applied, either. I thank my lucky stars - and my late ex - that none of that bad stuff applied to me. I don't like how some people on both sides work that system to their unfair advantage. I'd support practically ANYTHING that would induce payment of the $2 Billion owed by deadbeat parents in this province. I've seen that figure increase fourfold, at least, over the years. It's a self-replicating tragedy.
     
    Rachel83az likes this.
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think someone who's not supporting their children is hardly being a proper parent. It's a responsibility, not an option. As Rachel said, if they were still married and didn't support them properly, CPS would take the children.

    Responsibility. That's why we call ours the Family Responsibility Office. Appropriate title - but I think they should be far more effective. $2 Billion.... lot of hurting kids out there. And a lot of deadbeat parents who should be.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2022
    Rachel83az likes this.
  4. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    It's one thing to be a little behind because you lost your job. It's another thing to work jobs under the table so you can avoid paying, pretending you "can't" pay for literally years. Genetic donors who do that (and that's quite possibly the majority of who owes back child support) are scum.
     
    Johann likes this.
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    When I was teaching AFROTC a number of my cadets made side money as donors. (It was funny to see a couple of future fighter jocks get rejected while the accounting major was accepted.) But NONE of them talked about the ramifications of parental responsibility, and these were very responsible young men. I doubt if anyone at the clinic even talked to them about the possibility.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Fortunately, at least in this regard, one thing the system often gets right is that the interest of the child to see their parent outweighs sanctimonious punishment for parents who are having trouble making ends meet.

    Majority? Citation needed.
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    A lot of split parents figure it's OK to stiff their kids, if their car insurance comes due, or there's a repair bill, or they're behind with so-and-so creditor. Any excuse. They don't get NEARLY enough punishment. That's why we have much of the problem. How is punishment "sanctimonious" for such individuals. I don't think ANY form of punishment is "sanctimonious." They have to learn what comes first. Some of them are slow learners and need constant reinforcement (i.e. something MAJOR hanging over their heads.)

    Old adage in my (former) business. "Find out what scares the debtor... Is it losing the car - or telling Mother - or what? Then concentrate the conversation directly on that." It works. So that's what you do... whatever it is. And whatever you threaten - be prepared to DO. That's vital.

    I know how this works, Steve. 30 years experience.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
    Rachel83az likes this.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I hasten to add - that's 30 years of all types of debt collection. Never collected child support. Knew people who did, though. If the person was working, they usually just attached their pay to the extent required. As Rachel said, lot of "underground economy" out there. They can often be found.
     
  9. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    For what it's worth, I made a cursory look for statistics on child support fraud.

    While only 40% of parents actually get their full child support payments, I can't find any data, even estimates, about the prevalence of child support fraud.
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    What exactly do you mean by child support fraud, Dustin? Do you mean people collecting it but not declaring when they should? Do you mean people who should be paying, evading some or all of what they should pay, by lying about their means, under examination, or concealing earnings? I know what non-payment and delinquency are - but fraud, in this sense?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sample story I heard lots of times, in low places, years and years ago. I don't go to those places any more. Haven't in years.

    "I was working at xxx, making good money, but the wife and I separated last year, so I had to go on welfare." (i.e. To avoid paying child support.)
    Ain't some people wunnerful? :(
     
    Rachel83az likes this.
  12. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Member

    I have heard around these same numbers. This is exactly the sort of reason why I'm single with no kids... I got that sort of information beforehand. If a person wants to have children, probably the most important decision they could ever make in their life is who the other parent is going to be.

    Personally I also think it's smart to have all child support payments recorded by the state. I have known plenty of single parents who were raising their children without the support of the other parent. When the single parent is low income though that can actually harm the child long-term because they may not get the same advantages and opportunities that their peers might get. In the area where I am at there are a lot of mothers that take pride in raising their children without any financial help from their fathers... but they struggle immensely and I see firsthand how it hurts the children. Sometimes the fathers are unable to pay child support and yet the mothers are refuse to utilize food stamps, TANF, etc out of pride even when they are making too little to support their families. I've also seen parents that think they are capable of co-parenting together, and thus do not need the state to be tracking the child support payments. Suddenly they will start getting into fights about who did what and who owes who money. It is a disaster. I think it should just be tracked from the start by the state, and people co-parenting in such arrangements should use phone or web applications for tracking their conversations. I am all about documentation. There also needs to be better systems in place for making sure that children are getting medical care and schooling. It astounds me how that can just get skipped over and the state authorities do not seem to have any systems to flag it. Personally I think there's a lot of messes to be cleaned up in this entire arena.
     
    Dustin, Rachel83az and Johann like this.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Everything you say here - happens. Just as frequently as you say it does, I'm certain. I can't fathom why people get themselves, their ex's and their kids into these dire states in such numbers. So many people need constant "policing." I'm going to have to look and see if this happens with such frequency in Scandinavian countries. They're more socially developed than we are. Maybe they have some old Rune-Magic or a new something-or-other. A few - I could understand. The number we have - I'm going to leave this planet at some point - just as bewildered as when I came in.

    Everything reminds me of a song, and this time I'm reminded of Bobby (Blue) Bland's 'Yolanda.'

    "You left me in this wilderness with no money down."
     
  14. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    The second one. The non-custodial parents underreporting or concealing their income to avoid paying.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    It's pretty rampant. We've got some of the idea of the size of the 'underground economy.' Rachel's comment about "working under the table" is significant. It's certainly not just the tax bite, that many of these people are avoiding. It's creditors and this kind of fraud. I think it's like welfare fraud. Only the tip of the iceberg gets seen. And, like welfare fraud, even that doesn't get prompt attention, a lot of times.

    You can get anything done, under the table. We all "know someone" or a friend does. A lot of that traces back to this kind of fraud.
     
  16. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    I don't have any stats, but I've definitely heard the "had to go on welfare to avoid child support" thing. And they used to do child support "busts" on the news. They'd go after guys who owe tens of thousands of dollars in back child support and it'd turn out they were using their brother's or cousin's or whatever's SSN for employment, or they claimed they had no job but were driving luxury cars because of an unregistered lawn care business or something along those lines.

    The people who really can't pay and who are honest about it are, IMO, going to go back to court to have the agreement/order modified. They're not going to claim they can't pay while also purchasing luxury goods.
     
  17. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Member

    Good song! I love blues, soul, jazz, and r&b. Seems Bobby crossed a few of these genres.
     
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Often, people who get their jobs through trade unions have pretty easy access to an escape route, here, if they want one. People who might work a couple of weeks on a job site, till completion, and then be on another one, for a different contractor. I've seen it happen a lot, in the debt collection biz. Some might have a dozen or more W2s (T4s in Canadian lingo) at the end of the year. Hard to catch - for debts or child support, if they want to be. Even with a court order. Timing is everything.
     
    Rachel83az likes this.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Nice to know! My territory, exactly, too. And yes - Bobby did. I started listening to him in the early 60s. Everything he did was great. A true master has passed on (2013).
     

Share This Page