5 Year Old Cuffed, Arrested

It will surprise none on this forum who've read my views that I think the police response was measured and reasonable given the behavior of the child in question and the fact that she'd previously destroyed her classroom and the principal's office.

Why let the little darling bite/kick/scratch/gouge the cops or hurt herself thrashing about inside the squad or wherever they took her? If I walked into that room and saw the same devastation that that sweet little girl had wrought, I'd cuff her also.

If you watch the full videos, it's painful: "Now you little cutie, you shouldn't be busting up everything in sight, we have rules here--ouch!--now you shouldn't punch your principal, that's not being a good citizen--crash!--now good little helpers don't break teacher's keepsakes..." Those teachers have zero power, and it doesn't take the inmates in the asylum long to figure this out. Dear little what's-her-name seems to have caught on to this fact. She seemed to be having one whale of a good time before the cops arrived; her shriek at being cuffed seemed to me more surprise and rage at actually being stopped: "Why, you can't stop me; they let me do whatever I darned well please around here!"

Her butt should have gotten a good healthy POP, no two ways about it. Guaranteed, though, many of you experts will wax on philosophically about how that only encourages violence, etc. etc.--BILGE!

Oh for the days of corporal punishment.

 

Cuffing a child is actually rather difficult. I remember a ten year old psychotic who had to be cuffed for exactly the reasons you suggest. But the cuffs didn't want to cinch down far enough to hold her wrists.

IMAGINE the suits against the police if they DIDN'T restrain the kid and someone got hurt.

Coal mining is good. So is sweeping chimneys.

 

Hobbes choice: either cuff the little darling and risk litigation or not cuff her and risk litgation when she finally decides to grab the nearest pointy object and hurts herself or a classmate/teacher.

Curious about your remark on coal mining and chimney sweeping; to what are you referring? Am I ignorant of some well-known idiom?

 

Only that coal mines, chimney sweeps and (of course) textile mills gave useful employment to tens of thousands of children...

 

I'm torn... but then again, I haven't seen the entire video.

Still, though... it's just difficult to fathom. I mean... we're only talking five years old, here... and she didn't seem that big of a five-year-old, to boot. How much restraint could it have taken?

I dunno. I mean, don't get me wrong... I get little fauss's points, loud and clear; and good points they are, I might add. But five years old. I dunno... this is a tough one for me. Sorry... but it just is.

That and all of the above having been said, I can't help thinking that it might, nevertheless, not be so bad to be the litigator in for a third on that one. Seems it would likely settle... but still.

 

A 5 year old in a manic rage can have incredible strength. I once worked with a second grader that when he "went off" required four teachers to get him restrained.

 

It makes me wonder. How did this child become the way she is? What did (or didn't) mom and dad teach her?

 

I saw the video. She was acting pretty badly but I don't think she should have been handcuffed. Ultimately there should have been someone there who specialized in these kinds of situations.

A long time ago I used to be a student aide in a junior high school special ed program for TMH or "trainably mentally handicapped". The teacher was about 5 feet tall and 100 pounds, and there were a couple of the handicapped students who were physically aggressive... and big. A lot of them had been abused growing up, most of them were very sweet-natured but a couple were frighteningly unpredictable. I saw one of the girls jump the teacher once and it scared the hell out of me. I'm not sure what happened but about 10 seconds later the teacher had everything totally back under control. Not everyone can do it, I certainly couldn't, but experienced professionals with disturbed children are the best at dealing with these situations. If they're also police, then that's fine, but I don't think a nonspecialist police would know how to use the appropriate amount of force.... hence the handcuffs.

 

There could be organic reasons. Don't be too quick to blame the parents. (Although I heard in one newscast that the mom is pretty difficult to accommodate.)

I saw the video. I thought the peace officers handled it very well. The restraints ensured everyone's safety, including the child's. And if they didn't do it, and the kid hurt herself, you can bet momma would sue.

 

As someone who has had to restrain out-of-control children, let me tell you that it's not easy to do without hurting them.

When someone is handcuffed or otherwise restrained, it's as much for their own safety as anyone else's. As mentioned already, had the child not been cuffed and then got hurt, the personal injury lawyers would have been lining up outside the mother's house.

In a perfect world, there would have been qualified psychiatric professionals available to sedate the child, but that doesn't happen in real life. In most mental health situations, the police are a band-aid until more qualified help can step-in. Sometimes a band-aid doesn't work to perfection, but it's better than nothing at the time.

 

My take was quite different: I saw the "law enforcement mentality" at work again. A bunch of wannabee-cowboys/girls who should never be given a badge, gun, or handcuffs playing out some dominance fetish.

My wife, a more liberal-minded person, and a teacher, found this disturbing as well.

 

Personally, I think those cops ought to be on the receiving end of lawsuits for child abuse, civil rights violations, and wrongful arrest, just to name a few.

 

I agree. Maybe it would help those who feel otherwise to better understand our position if they would imagine - vividly - this same situation but replace the image of the child in question with a cute little curly-haired blond blue-eyed WASP. Then imagine that the little blond is their own child (grandchild, godchild, niece, etc.)

 

This is insulting and baseless. There's no indication that the race of the child had any bearing on the matter, and introducing such speculation without even a shred of evidence is reckless, and it inhibits discussion of the actual events.

 

Actually, I thought of that, expected that card was going to be played.

Under the circumstances, had it been one of my kids--and I have five of the cutest little curly-haired blondes you've ever seen--I'd hope that one of the teachers or administrators would have the good sense to put them over their knee and beat their butts--no threat of litigation would be coming, only gratitude, and I'm an attorney.

And when they got home, they'd have a long and unpleasant meeting with my palm moving in a rapid horizontal manner in the direction of their gluteus maximi.

 

Re: Re: 5 Year Old Cuffed, Arrested

Come on, please! They didn't beat that girl; they restrained a little brat who needs a thorough butt-whipping. Have we jettisoned all common sense in this culture?

In any event, I feel happy to have sparked such a lively discussion. Lots of fun!

 

Where was Super Nanny when they needed her?????

 

I'd be willing to bet she doesn't throw a tantrum at school anymore.

The police action may prevent this little girl from becoming a juvenile delinquent.

We all see, on a daily basis, horrible crimes of violence by student against student, in the classroom, on the bus, etc.

A tough call, nonetheless.

My only criticism is that all female officers should have been called and at least one, the primary, should have been black.

 

I am of two minds about corporal punishment of children. I had three daughters; about one spanking into the first kid, I realized that, for ME anyway, this was not the way to go.

My daughters (thank God) are all well adjusted, successful young adults now.

post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Maybe so.

RESTRAINT, however, is another matter entirely.

 

Re: Re: 5 Year Old Cuffed, Arrested

It is precisely that attitude why 5 year-old kids feel free to act like lunatics, destroy property, and assault adults. Tell me, Ted, exactly how would you have handled that situation?

It never ceases to amaze me that people would never dream of telling a firefighter how to extinguish a blaze, or a DPW worker how to pave a street, yet EVERYONE thinks they know how to be a police officer better than those of us who have done it for years.

If anyone thinks they can do a better job, I suggest that you take the next entrance exam, pass the background check, psychological exam, physical fitness test, go through the police academy, get through field training, and then you can show us all how it's done.