Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jan 5, 2017.

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Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Poll closed Feb 4, 2017.
  1. Russians hacked into American election-machines and illegally altered votes.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Russians hacked the DNC & exposed immorality or criminality, causing citizens to change their votes

    15.0%
  3. Russians DID psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & media manipulation

    15.0%
  4. Russians did NOT psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & manipulation

    70.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Indeed. Another apt term is Brandolini's Law.

    I actually agree with you that the current system -- heavily regulated private health insurance that is tied pointlessly to employment thought the tax code and otherwise completely ensnared in an ever growing thicket of bureaucracy and subsidy -- is hopeless and should be woodchipped. But that doesn't mean that a Canadian-style system run by the U.S. federal government is the only reasonable approach, particularly when, as one would expect from a de facto set of price controls, it's led to shortages of available care.

    Moreover, while too few people in the U.S. (particularly in the judiciary) care about this for it to influence policy, MA is actually right about the unconstitutionality of Federal provision of healthcare. The 10th Amendment reserves that sort of thing for the states. Better to get the feds out of this altogether and let public options/free market reforms happen at a more decentralized level.
     
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    My healthcare insurance is provided by the Province of Ontario. I would be OK with healthcare working like public schools now do, and Canadian system is sort of like that. And it works OK for the wast majority of participants; any politician trying to propose it would not get past his party's riding association and will be laughed out of the political arena.
     
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Actually, the shortages thing is very convenient idea. Americans get fed "Canadian shortages" horror stories; Canadians learn about all the uninsured people and their plight. Everyone gets to feel good about their care and no major changes are needed.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    So, you all have thirteen plans, each funded by its provincial/territorial government?

    I was listening to As It Happens the other night. Mostly they were talking about the whole kerfuffle of Trudeau answering a question in French while in Quebec, but the topic moved on to other Quebec issues, like healthcare there, and one of the interviewees complained that it was thirteen months before she was able to get follow up care from a hospital visit.

    Now, granted that the plural of anecdote is not data, but if her account was accurate and it wasn't treated like a scandal, then single payer really isn't all it's cracked up to be.
     
  5. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yep. Personally, I hopped between multiple jobs at small and medium companies when we had our older daughter; I greatly appreciated the stability of having OHIP. And we had no issue getting access both to ob&gyn care and some more specific healthcare needs. Granted, we didn't need elective surgery or kinds of diagnostic imaging that seem to be in shorter than optimal supply; then again I remember issues with these under American private insurance as well. And not just under my crappy student insurance plan; my wife had a rather nice HMO from working for the State of Florida, envy of many; still, she has nothing but good things to say about OHIP. The only negative thing to report: when we requested a printout of our claims for Kenney's citizenship fraud fighting boondoggle, there were entries that seemed fraudulent. Apparently some provider billed the government for procedures we didn't get. Also, we're in Toronto; it's quite possible other parts of the country have more access problems than us.


    I do not pay much attention to Quebec, but it seem more corrupt and weird than the rest of the country. We used an emergency room at a hospital in Montreal; it was a nightmare, 4+ hours wait in the middle of the night. And Montreal, despite having 3 world-class universities, somehow has a significant unemployment problem. They're doing something wrong.
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    in fairness to Quebec: $7-a-day subsidized childcare sounds absolutely wonderful. Here in T.O., average fees for infant are $1700, and almost $1400 for toddler to preschool. With waiting lists. Insane.
     
  7. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    "The left has stooped too low — Democrats, and especially NBC, need to apologize to the Trump family immediately".
    You seriously think this statement is sane? Also, what is the purpose of posting link to this person's pic?

    I have to give it to the author though: Twitter is large, but it got to be hard to find a tweet from a member of the demographic you hate that is dumber than Trump's own tweets. Quite a feat. One thing though: this tweeter is NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, dammit!
     
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    A proof that Trump is in the wrong country: here's his apartment at Trump Tower:
    Inside Donald and Melania Trump's Manhattan Apartment Mansion | iDesignArch | Interior Design, Architecture & Interior Decorating eMagazine

    Here's Victor Pshonka's, the exiled Prosecutor General of Ukraine, house, icon of corruption and poor taste:
    Viktor Pshonka, Ukraine's prosecutor-general's, opulent Kiev palace | Daily Mail Online

    Even other exUSSR mobsters and corrupt rulers are saying "that's too much" seeing this. Yet it's essentially the same style as Trump's. And Maro Largo looks like Saddam Hussein's palace. How is it possible that you're not seeing this?
     
  10. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    It's kind of weird that you posted a pic of Katie Rich. I will admit she is quite pretty though. :smile:
     
  11. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    If it would have been the other way around heads would be rolling. But of course the anti Trump protesters aka a criminal mob have been attacking people and tearing up the town and that's ok too. Thank God for Trump! He does not play the PC games others do. People are acting like babies and nut jobs.

    Lastly why is it odd to show a pic of the person in question? I thought it was cool because I had no idea who she was.
     
  12. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Picking on a child.

    How tolerant, diverse, and inclusive of yet another leftist hypocrite.
     
  13. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    It sounds like you're having a huge peanut butter & jealous sandwich.

    The man is a billionaire, did you expect him to live in a double-wide down at the local trailer park?
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah, except no they don't. According to Google Earth the town is still standing. As I predicted, there is no significant violence, especially considering the number of people participating in events.
    (let me try this:) I'd be more concerned about all the Trump supporters gathered for the inauguration. Many people tell me that for this event, they are sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

    Because what that person looks like adds nothing to the discussion. It's odd to bring this up. So one semi-rational explanation could be that her appearance is highlighted for the same reason Trump highlighted Jon Stewart's birth name. There is the whole category of people who believe that they can detect a certain ethnic background from a photograph, and that ethnic background is relevant to person's ethics and political views. The story with Judge Curiel proves that Trump shares at least this last delusion. For that matter, so does his Birtherism.
     
  15. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    You would LIKE to live in that gilded marble entombment??? If I shared taste with friggin' Pshonka I'd be embarrassed. That's how corrupt officials, dictators, and major drug bosses decorate their dwellings.
     
  16. jhp

    jhp Member

    Because of my work I have been to a lot of rich people's homes. President Trump's place looks comparable to other US rich people's homes.

    The average income in Ukraine is around $200/month while $3,700/month in the USA.
     
  17. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Me? No, but that's just not my taste, I'd prefer an oversized center-entrance Colonial in a quiet suburb.

    To each their own; like most conservatives, I don't get offended when other people don't share my tastes or opinions, and don't denigrate them for it when it happens.

    I literally burst out laughing when I read that. :lmao:

    Is that how low the left has sunk? You're going to try to compare Trump to a dictator because of the way his home is decorated??? :lmao:
     
  19. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It's funny how I suddenly represent all of "the left". Gee, thanks, I guess.
    "Pshonka's house" was a minor Internet sensation; it is peculiar that Trump has the same taste as that lowlife scum. It's not just the expense of the decor, it's how dumb it looks. Superyachts are way more expensive, but not nearly as garish. Many people made fun of Romney for building a car elevator for his garage, but it actually makes some sense and doesn't reveal that much about Romney as a person. On another extreme, toilet seats made out of solid gold make one wonder. Trump's style does not have some of the more hilarious elements more notorious guys have (solid gold AK-47s, or misuse of the sacred objects, or multiple portraits of the owner), but comes pretty darn close. He did buy a huge portrait of himself at one point. It is almost as if he compensates for something.
     
  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

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