Accredited vs. non-accredited doctoral degree?

As you note, it may shave off a year but the student is still required to complete three to four years of doctoral level curriculum and other requirements at James College, which is the typical time frame for many PsyD programs. It is also important to note that for students without advanced standing status, William James requires that students complete 134 credits taken over five years.

However, my original point is that due to the extremely loose structure of IUGS PsyD program, and even if their degrees are deemed valid in the US, the vast majority, if not all state boards, would not accept their PsyD for meeting the requirements for licensing in Psychology practice.

 

At this point I'm arguing for the sake of arguing, I don't really care, but I don't know what you mean by "loose structure." On the other hand, if you can show me that licensure in the state of XYZ requires 12 credits in this or that and then show that the school doesn't offer those courses then I'll be convinced you're right but as it is, your simply saying it is so doesn't make it so. Thanks for tolerating my argumentative mood.

 

"This is not a matter of my seeking "a simple yes or no" answer or my not being aware of the foreign academic evaluation process and differing options from these evaluators, but of the need for a definitive understanding of whether or not NAB accredited degrees are on par in terms of acceptance, credibility and validity as are national or regionally accredited degrees in the US. That is why I requested that John Bear comment on this question rather than you or any of us continuing to engage in speculation regarding this issue."

 

Kizmet, just for the "record" I don't perceive your request for clarification to be argumentative. The fact, not my saying so, is that US schools offering PsyD degree programs require the completion of a structured sequence of regionally accredited approved doctoral level courses, practicums and internships that generally conform to the practice of Clinical Psychology. These doctoral programs typically take four to five years of full time study to complete, including the dissertation. In addition, the majority of these programs will not accept transfer credits from five to ten years ago. This contrasts with the PsyD program offered at IUGS which allows students to transfer ALL graduate courses pertaining to Psychology or a related field, including Social Work (which RA PsyD programs would not accept), regardless of the age of these courses. There is no structured sequence of coursework required to obtain the PsyD at IUGS or full time study requirement and the typical total time to completion of this doctorate is 18 months versus four to five years for a regionally accredited PsyD. This is why a PsyD from IUGS will most probably not meet the criteria established by state boards of profession for licensure to practice Psychology.

 

Kizmet, as an addendum to my post above, when I recently inquired regarding the number of students who graduated with a PsyD from IUGS and obtained licensure to practice as Psychologists, I was informed by admissions that they did not know!

 

As a holder of an AACSB-accredited MBA from a state flagship uni as well as a former instructor at an associates-granting community college, that makes perfect sense. The rigor of the average MBA program is similar to a US associates degree. The MBA has a very different purpose (to acquaint the student with the nomenclature and general processes involved in biz from a 30,000 ft, big picture perspective), and the average MBA student has more academic credentials, but the work involved to obtain the degree is similar to an associates, and significantly less than a BBA, at least within fields like accounting, economics, finance and information systems. For example, the BBA classes in advanced accounting that I'm currently taking at an AACSB biz school absolutely blow away anything I took to obtain the MBA and are on the level of law school rigor.

 

Jan - Most legitimate PhD programs in the world are not into "structured sequences of coursework" capped by supervised dissertation, that is the "ugly American" method. Most programs are about demonstrating a significant grasp of quantitative academic research methods, then getting on with the dissertation phase to make that first significant contribution to scholarship, which may take an extremely long time, if ever, or may take significantly less than four or five years. This program may be legitimate or not, I know nothing about it, but it is not rendered illegitimate by failing to follow the minority method of obtaining a PhD.

 

FTFACULTY, you're missing the point entirely. It is obvious that many doctoral degrees abroad are not obtained by the American standard, as delineated above, but by the completion of comprehensive research culminating in a dissertation. However, individuals with these research based degrees will NOT be eligible for licensure in the US as a Clinical Psychologist because they do not meet the mandated coursework, practicums and internships which are deemed equivalent to American Psyd requirements by state licensing boards of Psychology.

 

Steve, no one is discounting what you said about NAB. So if you are certain that a NAB accredited PsyD degree from IUGS is definitely equivalent to their American counterparts and are acceptable by US state boards of licensing in Psychology to practice Psychology, than please say so! Thanks, Jan

 

The issue with IUGS is that their PsyD degree program is primarily composed of myriad transferred graduate credits that are NOT in compliance with the specific and stringent requirements of US state boards of licensure for the practice of Psychology. So even if an NAB accredited doctorate is deemed acceptable by foreign credential evaluators in the US, a question that still remains unanswered, IUGS' PsyD degree program will in most probability not be accepted by state boards of Psychology for licensing as a Psychologist.

In fact, based on my discussions with IUGS, it is my impression that the vast majority of individuals who seek doctorates from IUGS are doing so for title, "doctor", and that they will be practicing with their masters level licensing in such fields as Social Work.

 

We have had some similar discussions regarding research-based PhD programs such as can be found at schools like UNISA. The ultimate transcript shows only one course in which the student is repeatedly enrolled. It will look like this [PSY9090] over and over for whatever number of years you are enrolled. The question then becomes, will this be adequate for licensure anywhere in the USA? Clearly, at that point the person with the UNISA PhD will have to go through some equivalency evaluation process and then submit that to the relevant licensing board for consideration. Different boards in different states might make different determinations. One answer is yes, another is no and another might be "You have to take a few specified courses before you can be licensed." There may be other answers that exist in a grey area. Since all of this would happen after the degree is awarded, the school would not necessarily have any knowledge of this process or the results of the process. Now there are two more points I'd like to make. The first is that, to my knowledge, we've never had a member go through this process (with UNISA or any similar school) and so we really don't know how that ball would bounce. Now just because we don't know about it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. A quiet night with Google Advanced Search might yield some interesting results. Finally, we have heard of a number of people who just don't care. They have already earned Masters degrees in a discipline that allows for licensure at that level. They don't need their PhD/PsyD for licensure purposes. They go through the degree equivalency process so that they might teach or join a professional organization of some sort. So for a lot of people just don't care about the licensure issue (you kinda knew that part already).

Finally, I'd just want to point out that we have been focusing this discussion on a PsyD degree. Most doctoral degrees don't require licensure and so this concern is irrelevant to most programs.

 

There's nothing wrong with seeking a doctorate for the title. I like IUGS model; the degrees it offers seem to fill the need (mostly ABD faculty members and adjuncts seeking a Dr.), if a bit overpriced.

Having said that, it's difficult to say whether IUSG status will be fully accepted. NAB is indeed a relevant government agency; however, to date it accredits only two schools:
1) University of the West Indies. This is the region's premier school, unquestionably legitimate and distinguished. None of the three UWI physical campuses are in Dominica; there is an Open Campus support site providing services to 342 students. According to the UWI, its open campus is accredited by Barbados Accreditation Council.
2) IUGS. How many students does it have in Dominica, really?

It seems that demonstrated legitimacy of IUGS reflects more upon NAB than the other way around. It's similar with Euclid U. and its recognition from The Gambia.

Also, the relatively few listed faculty members all seem to have jobs elsewhere. To be fair, all seem to be real and credentialed.

 

Kizmet, so the general question relating to IUGS'S other doctoral programs is whether they are considered credible, viable and on par with similar doctorates obtained from nationally or regionally accredited doctoral programs in the US? It may be possible to refer to oneself as "doctor"in the US if one earns a doctorate from IUGS, although I'm not certain about this. However, will this degree possess credibility in the US? Perhaps, but IMHO, no, based on the current requirements to obtain a doctorate from IUGS. Now if their doctoral programs become more demanding and structured, and if NAB accreditation is acceptable in the US, doctorates from IUGS may gain greater credibility and acceptance in the US. I look forward to a definitive answer regarding this question.

 

Stanislav, I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with seeking a doctorate for title but the issue is selecting a legitimate school that will not negate one's professional status or lead to questions regarding whether the possessor of such a degree tried to "get over" by obtaining a questionable doctorate.

I too like IUGS's model BUT that imo is insufficient for me to obtain a doctorate that may result in questions regarding the validity and credibility of this degree by professuonal peers and employers.

The fact that the faculty appear to have jobs elsewhere, appear to be real and to be credentialed imo is not sufficient criteria to make a decision to attend a costly doctoral program whose legal status and credibility in the US remains questionable.

 

As you continue to seek that definitive answer I suggest that you clearly define "acceptable" or "accepted in the US." If I get a PhD in English Lit will I be considered for a community college teaching job? Will an MEd or PhD in Education get me a raise and a shot at the Principal position at my high school? Will a DBA lend credibility to my consultation career? To my mind these are all acceptable uses for a degree and it's easy for me to imagine that degrees from this school will be useful in such ways.

 

Kizmet, "Acceptable" implies that there will be NO questions or doubts regarding the credibility and legitimacy of the doctorate I attain from professional peers, employers or clients, that may negatively impact on the perception of my professional image and integrity. Imo, based on IUGS's current structure of its doctoral programs, I would be very concerned that a doctorate from IUGS would not meet this standard and could potentially compromise my credibility.

There is another issue to consider. Say for instance one obtains an IUGS PsyD and is subsequently sued by a client for whatever reason, alleging that the client's mental status was adversely effected by the therapist with this doctorate. The plantiff's attorney would have a field day with such a case by merely inquiring regarding the content and validity of the therapist's PsyD, which will place the therapist in a no win situation because he/she will obviously not be able to demonstrate the educational equivalence of their doctorate with a PsyD from a regionally accredited and/or APA approved university.

In sum, I am a firm believer in risk management to attempt to pre-empt foreseeable problems. However that's me and if others wish to obtain such a doctorate I wish them well.

 

Bah. There's always someone willing to question status and credibility of any school. I bet there are MIT grads calling Harvard a wishy-washy lib art degree mill. I graduated from "Kyiv Polytechnic", arguably second-highest profile University in my country; I've met at least one "Shevchenko State" grad making fun of it almost to my face. Same for Florida State, only in this case from the UF grad (one of the reason I refuse to ever buy or drink Gatorade).

In every case, it is incumbent upon an applicant to assess any degree program and its suitability for one's current and foreseeable future needs. Personally, I do not see a scenario where IUGS degree is a good choice for ME (especially at 20K). I can easily imagine a person who in fact can benefit from such a degree.I found a few instances on the Web of people using degrees from Azteca or Empressarial with apparent success.