Accredited vs. non-accredited doctoral degree?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by PhiloScholar, Jun 16, 2009.

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  1. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

  2. novadar

    novadar Member

    I love DI

    How can you not love DI? I always have such great chuckles from the things I read here. Not LOL level but "good for the soul" chuckles. I really don't have anything to add to this discussion at hand (nor do I really want to). I just wanted to say thanks for the morning laughs.
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's more, "You're anonymous and have no track record." That's why I'm not dismissive of you, since I've had the opportunity to see you develop a well informed opinion about distance learning over many years, but have become so of Jan, who so far has demonstrated only a propensity for querulousness.
  4. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    What do FTF's or Jan's "academic credentials" have to do with IUGS' credibility or with whether IUGS is a good choice for prospective graduate students like Ani? What do they have to do with prospective students making judgments about mysterious ostensibly foreign online universities operating out of places where academic standards are unknown? That's a question that arises a lot on Degreeinfo and it needs to be taken seriously. It's going to arise a lot more often, as DL becomes more international.

    It can't be the case that only those with "academic credentials" can make these judgments, because it's the prospective students in search of the credentials that are in the position of having to make them.

    It seems to me that "academic credentials" are only relevant when somebody is making an argument from authority. And with minor exceptions, nobody has done that in this thread. What is needed are strong arguments and verifiable information.

    Absent that, skepticism is healthy.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2016
  5. Jan

    Jan Member

    Steve, I suggest that you take stock of the fact that "querulousness" marks the essence of each of your posts when you go on the attack when you cannot substantiate your support of NAB. just an observation.
  6. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    We don't allow none a that funny stuff in here, boy.
  7. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Great post! Also, one of my DI hobbies is trying to do a mental personality profile of posters.
  8. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    OK, here's what it has to do with things. If you've done research into nontraditional overseas doctorates, academic research, as in for publication in journals, if you're already published in such journals and specifically in one pedagogical journal that specializes in online education, if you've been teaching classes online for 13 years, if you've developed multiple courses online from scratch, taught dozens and dozens of them, if you've taught for five institutions of higher ed, if you've been full time at one such 20,000+ state U for the last 8+ years where you've been part of multiple teams that were formed for the specific purpose of maintaining accreditation, if you've gone to numerous seminars on online teaching pedagogies and are currently in fact taking such a six week training seminar at the behest of your university, I dare say you likely know a mite more about online programs, doctorates, accreditation and the validity thereof than the average Jan who can't even be bothered to share his/her credentials!

    Even if Jan is right about this (which may well be the case, who knows? Jan apparently doesn't), Jan apparently does not have the knowledge and experience base to act so smugly and dismissively--and if you can't notice those attributes, Heirophant, then I am wasting time and energy upon you, you are benighted.

    I would think myself about as capable of going onto a forum devoted to roofing techniques and telling professional roofers about their craft as Jan is capable of doing what he/she is doing here.
  9. Jan

    Jan Member

    FTFACULTY, now I understand your definition of a detente: To continue to attack and negate the party you have agreed to have peace with while smugly using this forum to extol your "incredible" accomplishments" as a basis for your statements holding greater truth than that of the poster who has no need to do so. You remind me of Hitler's peace pact/ detente with Stalin in 1939, resulting in Hitler mounting an unrelenting deadly blitzkrieg on Russia. (Lol)

    Sorry fellow detente partner, that is a fallacious argument because all of your espoused credentials and alleged accomplishments does not make your statements more credible or valid than mine or other posters who do not engage in such self praise and braggadocio antics.

    So if you have something viable to offer regarding the basis of this thread I'm all ears but am not interested in your using this forum to bolster your self worth while negating others.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2016
  10. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Jan - You're trying too hard, trying to sound urbane and sophisticated and highly educated, but coming across like a sophomore with a dictionary. My accomplishments aren't incredible, I have colleagues who have PhDs from Yale and Harvard and Stanford, I know where I stand in the scheme of things--but willing to bet it's from a level of expertise far beyond yours. You're making yourself look foolish. Just cut the crap and humble yourself.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2016
  11. Jan

    Jan Member

    FTFACULTY you just confirmed my point. You are using this forum to boost your esteem by attempting to put down others.

    So now that we clarified your ulterior motivations, let's hear your perspective regarding the basis of this thread. We're waiting. That's if you have any.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2016
  12. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Jan comes across as a combination of a rank amateur and Trump.

    But seriously, I did take a minute or two to look more closely at IUGS, in which Jan seemed to place some level of credibility. Turns out that it's a blatant degree mill (no surprise), as exposed quite nicely in the Chron itself: Psst. Wanna Buy a Ph.D.? - The Chronicle of Higher Education.

    In this thread, it seems like it's Jan versus everyone else. And everyone else, for lack of a better term, is winning the game.
  13. Jan

    Jan Member

    "Jan seemed to place some level of credibility in this school" a statement that merely demonstrates that you are in another world! Sorry to inform you Levicoff but it was not me who placed credibility in IUGS but a number of other posters on this forum. I think that you've been driving that truck too much and should stop at a rest stop and have a strong cup of Joe. It may shock you back into reality. lol
  14. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    The unfortunate irony of the article is that it pays to own a diploma mill. Also it pays to have a degree from a diploma mill.
  15. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Well, from my quick investigation, IUGS does not appear to be a blatant degree mill. An argument could reasonably be made that it fits Steve Levicoff's proprietary definition of "degree mill", although even here I think we don't have enough info. The term "mickey mouse school" is closer to capture it, being of a more subjective nature. Both terms, of course, include some properly accredited schools as well.

    IUGS is a school of a low academic profile that, most probably, meets GAAP (per Steve Foerster). As such, it can meet the needs of relatively small number of students; in fact, it demonstrably meets such needs. In my own list of programs to pursue, incidentally, IUGS does not make the top 10 list; if I need a barebones GAAP degree I can find one that's both better and cheaper. However, I can easily imagine a guy with a career and bunch of graduate credits (or with the burning passion for Parapsychology) who can benefit from IUGS program. It's much different than purchasing a diploma from a mill.

    IUGS could do much more to boost both their academic profile and GAAP claim. From the top of my head, and not involving radical change to academic process:
    - feature some of the work their faculty does/did
    - publicise names and diss titles of doctoral graduates
    - People getting doctorates are also likely to be authors of published works, if only through POD or vanity press. Celebrate these works.
    - research credential evaluation issue. Pay for one graduate to go through every NACES accessor; chances are better than even that one evaluation will be favourable. Publicize it.
    - create a better website.

    Frankly, Euclid University does MUCH better job on each and every of these fronts, even though its principals are not retired business deans of RA schools and their charter is from The Gambia. Come to think of it: hiring Rev. Dr. Laurent Cleenewerck can boost the profile of this place.

    However, I suspect that Prof. Weisman makes good enough income with present enrollment levels and thus not interested in marketing or image improvement. Shame.
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    "I know Steve Levicoff.... You, sir are no Steve Levicoff!"
  17. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Jan, bubaleh, you engaged in a faux pontification on IUGS, as you did on psychology licensure, with no expertise whatsoever. It took me less than five minutes to conclude that IUGS was a degree mill and to cite an authoritative source for that conclusion. You either did not have the intelligence nor the balls (a term I use gender-inclusively) to do so.

    And if people like you are an indicator, I should spend more time driving a truck. You're becoming way too defensive at this point, yet are totally lacking in substance. Time for you to regroup. I don't mind someone who wants to be an adversary, but to be my adversary they have to be worthy of it.

    Side thought: Has anyone noticed that the only people who have extensively used the phrase ad hominem here are Jan and Rich Douglas? I'm not suggesting that they are the same person (Rich was last on the forum under his own name on 10/9/16), but, as Arsenio Hall might say, it's one of those things that makes you go, "Hmmmm..."
  18. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Reading comprehension, Steve. Jan has been expressing skepticism about this thing. It's the rest of the board that's been defending it.

    I posted that link on the other thread a few days ago. The response was that it was a 2004 story and since then IUGS has moved (what does 'move' mean for a virtual school with no physical facilities?) to Dominica and has received NAB accreditation. The board consensus seems to be that the NAB accreditation makes everything different now. Which may or may not be true. Jan is skeptical. So am I. But at any rate, the whole thing seems to revolve around how much faith one has in the NAB.

    And everyone else has been arguing for the legitimacy of IUGS. (Or at least against Jan arguing against it.) You just disagreed with them and sided with Jan.
  19. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    You got me--nailed it, Jan, just boosting my self esteem here by putting Jan, The Big Cahuna, down. Foiled again!

    And with all due respect, Steve L., from what I remember of Rich way back in the day, to put him on even footing with Jan is a major insult to him. He may have been very Rich-esque in his demeanor, for all that implies, but intellectually he'd have chunks of people like Jan in his stool.

    Jan is perhaps the worst example of a person completely out of their league running scared and defensive I've ever seen on a forum. Just cannot help herself (I'm running with "her", more common female name), just has to shovel another layer of dirt with every passing post. Like watching a trainwreck, you cringe.
  20. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    People make big money running "internet universities". In some cases, millions a year.

    The second point is what several of Jan's opponents have been arguing in this thread, even saying they see nothing wrong with doing it. Degreeinfo isn't the same board that it was when it migrated here from a.e.d. It's seemingly gone over to the dark side.
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