Will universities hire professors with an Ed.D. instead of a Ph.D.?

Discussion in 'Education, Teaching and related degrees' started by 29dave, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    If the EdD in question (unlike almost all Ph.D. programs) allows the candidate to complete a research project that DOES NOT make an original contribution to the academic field (the theory), it may inhibit the candidate's employment in academia, particularly traditional academia. After all, the doctoral dissertation is a first, huge step on a life-long research path, something the employing university wants to consider when considering candidates. Do they want this candidate and this candidate's intended areas of future research, and do they (the candidate and the research) fit into the university's (department's, actually) future plans?

    Many--but certainly not all--non-Ph.D. doctoral programs allow for a non-academic approach that also does not make an original contribution to the canon. In others, the dissertation requirements are identical to Ph.D. programs. And, finally, there are plenty of Ph.D. programs--especially those targeting mid-career professionals--that are rather lax on the original academic contribution requirement. Sooooo........it's a jumble out there.

    Second, I echo those who warn that earning a degree from a nontraditional school (or program) isn't a good way to enter traditional academe. You miss out on a bucketload of networking, plus the whole slave/apprentice thing.

    Finally, why would you want to enter academia traditionally if you are a mid-career professional, even if you could? No job security, diminishing chances at tenure, publish-or-perish, crummy pay, etc. Fine if you're creating your professional identity; not so much if you already have one. Better to look for nontraditional opportunities in either traditional or nontraditional schools. Then either a traditional or nontraditional degree would help.

    (I've been in the middle of these kinds of things for quite some time now, and am experiencing quite the opposite of what I wrote above regarding Ph.D. and non-Ph.D. degree programs. Go figure.)
  2. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Great to see you back Rich!
  3. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    In the decision to hire, the Ph.D. vs. Ed.D. is very seldom a major consideration. An Ed.D. with a solid record of teaching, publications, presentations, etc. will tend to beat out a Ph.D. without a background of teaching and scholarship. For my last two positons, I was hired over a candidate pool of 40 and 200 respectively, which included many Ph.D. holders. While there are many, many higher education faculty with Ed.D.s, I am conducting a national study of the degrees held by college of business faculty and we are finding a surprising number of Ed.D.s among business faculty.
  4. widereader

    widereader New Member

    It is important that the university that this person has obtained his degree is accredited. BOth can be accepted in universities. In the Philippines, Ed.D and Ph.D. graduates are hired by universities. Deans can either have Ed.D. or Ph.D. degrees
  5. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    The same is true in the U.S.A.
  6. kirkhenderson123

    kirkhenderson123 New Member

    Anthony, in considering a Ed.D. program, you had mentioned in an earlier post that someone with a Ed.D in a different discipline than their masters degree would not be as competitive in getting work as a candidate with a Ed.D. or PhD in the candidate's sames masters degree subject area. But if I have a masters in psychology, and another masters in counseling, then get a Ed.D. in curriculum and instruction, would there be a significant benefit at all in teaching for a university? I just know I need a doctorate to be competitive with online and B&M teaching opportunities. I just have not found an inexpensive option for a general psychology doctorate as I have found with education doctorates, as I want a state university for better credibility. So I would love to know your thoughts...
  7. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Did I really say that? I would be interested in seeing the post of which you are referring, because I don't think that I would agree with myself :)

    Our accrediting bodies allow faculty to teach graduate courses if they have a terminal degree (usually a Ph.D., Ed.D., D.B.A., etc.) in the area to be taught OR a masters degree in the area to be taught and a terminal degree in a different discipline. I have stated in the past that, in most cases, I believe that the former would have an advantage over the latter.

    All other things being equal (which they rarely are), I would prefer hiring an accounting professor with a doctoral degree in accounting than one with a masters degree in accounting and a doctorate in a different discipline.

    The argument could also be made that some one with a masters in one discipline and a doctorate in a different one would have an advantage, in that he or she could teach in two different areas, while the one with the masters and doctorate in the same discipline would be limited to one area.
  8. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    For your situation, you may be just fine. Although, if you were up against a candidate with an APA accredited Ph.D. in psychology, some departments might weight that heavily in the mix. Honestly, though, the degree is only one piece of the puzzle. A record of success teaching, scholarship and service will, in most cases, override the differences in the degree title and granting institution.
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Does that seem to be the standard for all the RA agencies?
  10. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    What about a terminal degree and 18 graduate credits in a different disciipline?
  11. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Not necessarily. It is for SACS.
  12. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Yes, one of the SACS guidelines is for a terminal degree and a concentration of graduate credits in the area to be taught (interpreted as 18 graduate semester hours).
  13. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    One item that tends to be missed is discussions like this is that the Ed.D. degree is offered in a number of fields, such as educational psychology, counseling and guidance, instructional technology, sports management, human development, quantitative policy analysis (yes, that one's at Harvard). Even Arthur Levine's recommendation that the Ed.D. be abolished (Levine is the former President of Teachers College, Columbia University) was really an indictment of programs that prepare K-12 administrators than a critique of the doctor of education degree. Nowhere in his report does he acknowledge that the Ed.D. is awarded in anything other than educational administration.

    Others, like Osguthorpe, who ran the largest study comparing the Ed.D. to the Ph.D. in education, have stated that the two degrees are so alike in their requirements and outcomes that either they should be made more distinct from each other (i.e. the Ed.D. becoming a true professional degree, rather than a research degree) or one (likely the Ed.D.) should be eliminated altogether. I believe that the same argument could be made for the D.B.A. versus the Ph.D. in business.
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Tony, you mention that there are EdD programs in instructional technology. I wonder how many schools would be okay letting a holder of such a degree teach straight IT courses.
  15. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    If the person's masters degree was not related to information technology or computer science, then it would probably not be very likely that he or she would be called to teach courses in, say, network security. Multimedia programming or I.T. management, perhaps. Most instructional technology doctorates would focus upon instructional design, development, evaluation and, maybe mangagement, along with research methods. I know that I would not hire myself to teach straight info tech graduate courses :)
  16. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    Here's a good example of an EdD in the related field. Dr. Powell (colleague of mine) holds an EdD:

    Dr. Danny Powell | Keith Busse School of Business & Entrepreneurial Leadership | University of Saint Francis, Fort Wayne, Indiana
  17. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

  18. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    One other colleague at my institution has an EdD, and he has joint appointments in the School of Business and the School of Arts and Sciences:

    Joe Steensma | School of Arts and Sciences | University of Saint Francis, Fort Wayne, Indiana

    Dr. Joe Steensma | Keith Busse School of Business & Entrepreneurial Leadership | University of Saint Francis, Fort Wayne, Indiana

    I think it's safe to say, esp. at smaller schools (our student population is around 2K), is the type of terminal degree is not as important as the total "body of work."

  19. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I couldn't agree more. In my experience, the total body of work tends to trump all other considerations (where you received your degree, whether it is a Ph.D., Ed.D., D.B.A., etc.)
  20. obecve

    obecve New Member

    My personal experience with my Ed.D. has been that I can get in to any instituion I have an interest in, however, the degree is not the deciding factor. A strong publication record, professional activiy record (associations, etc.), and professional recognition all contribute. My Ed.D. has never been a limiting factor (by the way I do not teach in education...I have taught in rehabilitation counseling, general counseling and leadership). My Ed.D. has always opened doors.

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