Why do some doctorates have foreign language requirements?

True - but the same could be said of most languages. Most of the world's people don't have anywhere near 100% of the vocab. available in their own language! As I see it, the unavoidable consequences of "purification" include not only simplification, but impoverishment, as well. Ironic, isn't it? We get the word "purification" straight from Latin! :smile:

In fact, six words of that sentence are Latin-derived. As far as difficulty for native speakers is concerned - well, maybe some could be taught better - and some could try harder. As far as learners are concerned, native fluency is hard to come by in any language. First they learn one word - later the alternates. Learning a language is a continual, never-ending process.

Close to where I live, in Toronto, a very few years ago, the city-wide senior prize in English (for all HS students) was won by a Polish girl of 18, who had come to Canada less than two years before. When she first arrived, she knew very little English other than "yes" or "no." Even before reading about her, I had very little patience for those native speakers who mangle English or complain of its complexity. Most are just not trying.

No - I'm not for "linguistic purity" at all. Like many attempts at standardization, regimentation and uniformity, it subtracts better than it adds.

Johann

 

To sum up:

I believe language is a living (and beautiful) thing - constantly evolving and not to be confined in a cage. I think that concept could meet widespread agreement - from rappers to academics.

Johann

 

Then again, perhaps punk players or the "ragamuffin-style" genre of reggae musicians, both of whom strip away layers of musical complexity in their art, might disagree with my take...but I haven't heard that specific protest from them... :smile:

"Legalize it!" :jester:

(Legalize - yet another Latin-derived word)

Johann

 

Say...if you want a bona-fide example of "language purity" messing things up (as it invariably will) then Canada is a fine place to start. The Province of Quebec has (uniformed) language police, whose function is supposedly to protect the French language from encroachment by other tongues. Among their flaky edicts, these officials have:

(1) Advocated the tearing-down of all Chinese signs in Montreal's Chinatown. (That did NOT fly!)
(2) Demanded the removal of such non-French terms as "pasta" from a Montreal Italian restaurant's menu.

That last one is still under negotiation!

I love Quebec. I've been to Montreal many times, Quebec City a few times and other places maybe once or twice, e.g. Hull, Gatineau, Val d'Or, to name a few. I speak French when I go there and if not perfect, it's quite functional. I've had zero static about it in 45 years or more. I don't think their French is perfect, either. :smile: But that's their prerogative...

I've observed that people in Quebec in general know how to live better than some others -like my folks, for example. By that, I don't mean they just know how to party or how to eat. They do those things very well, but there's much more to it! How such a vibrant people acceded to this barbarity of "language police" I am not certain.

Perhaps it was a reaction to the "language purity" that almost extinguished Cajun French in Louisiana. Coincidentally, it was almost exclusively through the efforts of the proprietor of unaccredited Vancouver Worldwide University - the late Raymond Rodgers - that the language was successfully revived. Some info on him and his efforts here:

Raymond Spencer Rodgers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In general, the idea of "language purity" gives me shivers - especially when, as in Quebec, it involves people in uniform. I start wondering if, perhaps, there will be camps established for dissenters like me. Brrrr! :sad:

Johann

 

Tim Hortons is typically spelled without a possessive apostrophe -- i.e. not as Tim Horton's.

I've been told that the apostrophe is missing is because such punctuation is banned on signs in Quebec. Don't know if this is true, or an urban legend.

 

Well, I do know that the syndrome applies to other companies, too. The grocery chain, which should be spelled as Fortino's - after its founder, the late Mr. John Fortino - is spelled Fortinos. No apostrophe.

I'd guess it may very well be true. I'll get back to you.

Johann

 

Not an urban legend, I guess.

Found this - very quickly. Same info elsewhere - several places.

"Because of French-language sign laws in the province of Quebec, Tim Hortons is spelled without an apostrophe to standardize signage across the chain. Canadian Tim Hortons outlets feature bilingual menus and cups. The chain's ubiquitous coffee cups proclaim the company motto "Always Fresh" on one side and "Toujours Frais" on the opposite side. Obligatory warnings about the injury potential of hot coffee are also printed in English and French. "

Note - this has been policy since the 1990s. I think one can find a very few old branches in English Canada that still have the apostrophe. I believe the very first branch was opened about 15 minutes' walk from where I live - it's on Ottawa St. in Hamilton. - Johann

 

OK, thanks. And while you are looking into important Canadian cultural issues, maybe you can help with another pressing concern:

Is there any way to spend your Canadian Tire money if you are in California ?

There's no Canadian Tire stores here. But you can't just throw it out, eh ?

 

Tell the bank you'd like to exchange your "Canadian" money. See what they do... :jester: BTW I worked in their financial subsidiary for quite a few years.

Johann

 

I note you're quoting Winston Churchill, Maniac. He didn't much like some grammar rules, either, viz. the prohibition against ending sentences with prepositions. His remark: "This is a situation up with which I shall not put!"

Perfectly OK to break any grammar rule - best done when one one knows the rule and breaks it with skill, not clumsiness and ineptitude.

And no - of course Joe Six Vessels (I love it!) didn't speak the same Latin as Horace, Virgil, Cicero an' them. Even while at school, I did get to see and read some graffiti scratched by ordinary Roman folks. And Joe's Latin - the common speech of soldiers and tradespeople, largely formed the vocabulary of the emerging Romance languages - not the Latin of poets or orators.

An example - the word for horse. Cheval in French, caballo in Spanish and cavallo in Italian. All from caballus - nag, or low-quality horse -a bit similar in meaning to cayuse in the American West. The $10 (or X sesterces) Latin word for horse is equus, (cf. equine). I note Hyundai calls its most expensive car Equus, not Caballus! :smile:

Latin can be made to change with the times - at least to some extent. Back in the 50s a priest might say "Benedicat Deus hoc helicopterum." (May God bless this helicopter.)

Perfect! Yes - there is really no substitute for education - not then, not now!

I won't argue. Go ahead! Do it with style! You know you W-A-N-T to! :smile:

Johann

 

Interesting Smithsonian article on grammar rules etc.. These "rules" under discussion appear to be 1860s inventions. Perpetrators exposed! BTW - you never could split an infinitive in Latin - always one word, no "to" or other prepositions. They were one word in Anglo-Saxon, too, (as in German today) but prepositions crept in - and it was then OK to split them if you wanted. Also, Churchill never said -- what I said he said. Myth apparently. Sorry! :sad:

Most of What You Think You Know About Grammar Is Wrong | Arts & Culture | Smithsonian Magazine

"To boldly go" - from Starship Enterprise. Most famous split infinitive? :smile:

Johann

 

In my day, when two languages were pretty much the norm, some schools accepted a computer language (Fortran or Cobol, among others) as satisfying one of those two. Wonder if anyone still does that? American Sign Language has also been accepted. But not Klingon, I suspect, even though there are dictionaries and grammar texts (Klingon Pocket Dictionary – Klingonska Akademien).

 

I don't think it's out of bounds for a program to expect it's PhD grad to be able to read literature from another culture.
That's all.

 

I took COBOL around 1978. Did OK, but never learned to SPEAK it properly, though. Really "wrote spaces to my printrec" whenever I tried. :smile: Seriously - In my (high school) days - ending in 1960, computer languages weren't yet on the HS curriculum! No computers in the schools - I'm not sure, but I don't think the School Board had one yet, either! Seeing as you're even a few years older than I am, how is it that these languages were on your school's curriculum?

No computer language is accepted as a language requirement around here. Schools here teach computer studies -- and languages, like French, German, Italian etc. separately. Not interchangeable at all. I did read, back in the 80s that Harvard would no longer graduate a student in any discipline, who could not demonstrate ability to write a simple computer program. I think BASIC was OK for that purpose.

I'm down with all that!

Johann