Why choose DETC?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by bennylinus, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    No offense but when my wife mentioned such degree as EC, TESC, CE etc. to professors at her University they laughed openly at them and call them "kakamaika" degrees that shouldn't be taken seriously.
    I'm not in the circles but some how I think many professors in name recognized universities share this view.
    To my disappointment they have very simple view about DETC they don't consider them as academic degrees but more as vocational credentials that suited for employment .

    I meant Union not Liberty it was a mistake
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  2. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    This debate is like arguing over whether Mercedes is better than Hyundai or some other obvious mismatch. The most prestigious schools are RA, and RA is likely to be, overall, better in many ways. Mercedes is better than Hyundai, but a Hyundai is far better than no car at all. If you cruise the strip in your Mercedes more girls will wave at you and you might get more dates, but if you don't need to pick up girls and only need to get to work...you might have been better off with the cheaper Hyundai. In fact, if you spend 80K to do accomplish what you might have done for 15k you could end up looking foolish. Bling, bling!
  3. simon

    simon New Member

    DOUGLAS: That's not true. There is available much evidence from which general conclusions may be drawn. Those general conclusions, of course, do not exclude individual situations. But just because some people are exceptions to the rule doesn't negate the differences and somehow makes the two options equal. They are most certainly not.[/QUOTE]

    SIMON: However, by reiterating your beliefs and opinions regarding the superiority of RA degrees from one post to another does not negate the relevance and viability of DETC degrees for certain students with specific needs and objectives. In short posters should not be discouraged from seeking degree programs which are congruent with THEIR needs, personal resources and professional goals, not YOURS!
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Some RA schools are Kia and not Mercedes :). Then there are Ferrari as well.
    Oxford, Yale, Harvard etc.

    EC, TESC, CO etc are KIA or Toyota at best.
  5. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    Agreed...there are always clunkers! I've seen people buy the cheapest version of a fancy brand name for prestige when they would have been better off with a mid-level, lesser brand.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  6. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    If someone asked me which I'd rather have for free...a nationally accredited doctorate or an RA doctorate, I'd take no time choosing RA. But...if I'm paying, I'd want to know the difference in cost. When the difference is in tens of thousands of dollars the decision is very serious. Any legit (legally) EdD might do the trick in many situations, such as in votech school teaching, where the instructors often have only NA undergraduate degrees. Beyond the issue of degree prestige there is the knowledge you gain from the degree. If you happen to be doing good work with a master's you might be that much better with the NA doctorate. If nothing else you should be smarter after finishing your thesis or capstone. Arguably, the votech dept head might make a much larger contribution to society with his/her lesser degree than many pedigreed hotshots from big-name schools, like the Ivy-League professor who teaches the humanities to rich kids. If you can turn out a class of 30 or 40 quality police or paramedic recruits, for example, you have done something very useful...and no one is debating NA versus RA; in fact no one cares.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  7. simon

    simon New Member

    SIMON: In fact it is not a matter of which is superior or more prestigious BUT which accredited degree program is within the student's capacity to successfully complete and whether it is congruent with their professional goals! That is why we need to be careful from discouraging posters from pursuing degrees which although not congruent with our opinions as to their superiority may in fact enable that student to successfully pursue and complete a degree that he/she may not have obtained otherwise.
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Wow. Let me sit down. One anonymous, second-hand anecdote against how many hundreds of thousands of graduates of the schools you mention?

    And even if you meant "Union," you have it all wrong regarding what Dr. Levicoff and I have said.
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    "Beliefs and opinions"? Really? That's it? No research from John Bear. No research from me. No research from DETC themselves. Just "beliefs and opinions."

    Posters should be very wary, both with DETC-accredited schools and posts that warp the truth.
  11. Great analogy. I personally prefer Toyota, gor the same reasons I prefer Excelsior: efficiency, simplicity and performance.
  12. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    That's interesting, because your lack of a valid argument is what convinced me to consider a DETC program. Keep up the good work!
  13. Rich is often blunt with his posts, but that doesn't mean he is trying to put anyone down.

    He did say, earlier in this thread, that DETC degrees have utility for some and agreed that this discussion is a case-by-case topic. However, he firmly believes that most, if not all, of such cases favor RA. In other words, he is not fooling himself nor anyone else.

    FYI, in another thread, Rich recently mentioned that he saw a fairly decent utility for a DETC DBA.
  14. simon

    simon New Member

  15. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    Ashworth versus Tiffin

    My master's is from Tiffin, an RA school, and I worked as a grader for the Ashworth, an NA school, grading CJ master's homework. Tiffin was a great experience, but I don't think it's offered any advantage over the Ashworth program. First, Ashworth is much cheaper, less than 1/2 as much. Second, like I've said above, Ashworth's delivery method is superior for both school's target audience, criminal justice workers. Tiffin's program was for practitioners and not designed to prep you for doctoral work, while Ashworth's program probably would not qualify you for most available doctoral programs. Tiffin was good, but hit and miss, some professors were better than others, like in most programs. Ashworth's, however, was much more consistent. Highly regarded professors, like the type you'd get from the Teaching Company programs, designed the courses for a specific textbook. They also give precise grading instructions for the graders, who must have at least a master's in the subject. Ashworth is in an office park with a big warehouse and loading dock. The courses ship out in one package, and everything you need is there all at once. If you want a master's degree you call them up, make your first payment, and in a short time you're studying graduate level CJ. That is better for a lot of people!

    Back to utility...I'm in police work. And I think my RA master's benefits me, but nobody, NOBODY, in my world cares about accreditation. They would assume national was higher than regional and they immediately be suspicious of anyone with a master's from someplace like Harvard or Duke. When I say Tiffin, they hear Tifton, because there's a Tifton, Georgia. They don't know Tiffin, from Ashworth or Ashworth from Capella, and good luck trying to get them to care long enough to explain it them. Most people are busy with their own industries and a lot of this debate seems pointless. The point is that if you're not going to be a professor, CEO or consultant this issue is often irrelevant.

    For all the RA or nothing camp, I wonder why anyone pursuing an RA for-profit degree didn't go for a non-profit program...and why anyone wouldn't simply go to Duke for the DL MBA, it must be much better than Walden's or Capella's in every way.

    The entire high education system is divided into tiers, and everything has its place.
  16. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Well if the University of Phoenix is out, then I guess that NY Regents graduates will just have to settle for second-choice places like Cal Tech's Biology division, which employs four Rockefeller PhDs (including a Nobel laureate). More of these NA graduates muddle by at Harvard, Boston University, University of Texas Austin, the University of Southern California, North Carolina State University, University of Georgia, UC San Francisco, University of Washington, SUNY Stony Brook, Duke University, New York University, Columbia University, University of Arizona, U. of Maryland, UC Irvine, U. Alabama Birmingham, the CUNY Graduate Center, and any number of similar places.
  17. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    It really depends on where those bubbles and truth originate from. When it is based on flawed arguments, as in your case, then there is nothing to gloss with respect to posters who happen to hold DETC degrees.

    The only area where the accreditation issue seems to arise is in connection with NA credit transfer to RA institutions. In the real job world, however, nobody seems to care whether or not a degree originated from a DETC or RA accredited school. The bottom line is that more and more consumers are moving away from the B&M model.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The Quackwatch report - "considerable distrust" of Union Ph.d's and other degrees with

    Rich Douglas and I(Steve Levicof), both of whom graduated from Union, are among Union's strongest critics these days. But we base our opinions on the current picture at Union, not on presuppositions about one graduate from many years ago.


    In this case

    I think DETC Doctoral program will be more comprehensive and of a better quality.

    Things did change since then for what is today Union Institute and University.

    I like this one

    This is not an attack just to show not all Ph.D's from RA's are the same or understood or respected.
    Holders of such RA degrees have to defend them.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  19. Tylin

    Tylin New Member

    I work for a federal LE agency, and this has been my experience as well. There are more important things to worry about in the grand scheme of things.
  20. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    Let's hope not! This thread is going places! It would be boring if everyone agreed.
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