Why choose DETC?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by bennylinus, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I did add the specifics, I explained exactly why I liked the DETC accredited school. I'm sure others had similar experiences.

    The DETC school had policy of 75% transfer credit and I was able to get 70% in my case wile RA's gave me about 50%. Resulting in faster graduation and cheaper.

    The 30 general education classes disappearing is very fresh problem of a family member and we are going to the State University to try to straiten this out.

    Not to mention the hush hush sex for grades thats is going on in this state universities and all the drinking and drugs.

    As I stated it was a huge relieve for me not to deal with this "Behemoth".

    Now the DL RA university I was accepted to and took 2 classes really had an accelerated format but you learned to fast for me. Not sufficient time to really digest the material. I must admit with my work load I needed to make progress on my own pace.

    The DETC University allowed sufficient time for FT working adult and father with kids.

    Its only one experience and it was very positive to me.

    I do have the Ukrainian Degree - well Soviet from a State university that basically accepted in a lot of schools. But it credits are some 25 years old.
    Some RA universities have limit to 10 years.
    I also had CIE diploma in Broadcast Engineering (DETC) that is a 20 credit hours but this university accepted only 10.
    I hope this will explain my situation.

    As mentioned the degree worked for me and already paid for it self.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2010
  2. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    Schools like Penn-Foster or Ashworth have flexible payment plans and self-paced courses. You can start when you like and put the work aside when you have other obligations. Ashworth offers self-paced graduate programs, something that does not exist or is quite rare at the graduate level in RA. Major noted above that RA schools are often bound to the semester schedule, which does not match the lives of normal adults. Recently, I took history courses at two RA colleges, and the professors were both quite good. In both cases the syllabus warned that no late assignments would be accepted unless is was a dire emergency. Twice I had to beg for an extension when my job canceled my off days. I recently threw in the towel, because it's a repeated conflict and I need to work. Work is inflexible, and so is school. If there were self-paced grad programs I'd have no trouble, but otherwise it's a lost cause. Secondly, many DETC schools let you set up quick payment plans and avoid the student loan system. Basically, you can sign up now and get your materials in mail in a short time and finish with no debt.

    If you don't plan to teach in an RA school and a DETC degree suits your purposes you might be better off. If Ashworth or Penn-Foster had degrees that I wanted I be studying there now. The schools are built for speed.

    Disclaimer: I was a paid paper-grader for Ashworth's master of cj program, but have no relation with the school now. I was really impressed at the quality control (detailed grading instructions) and precision of their system.
  3. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    At least two really dreadful schools (my opinion, of course) have applied for DETC accreditation, and comments are sought from the public (that's us).


    It'll be interesting to watch this process. At least two other dreadful schools got DETC accreditation in recent years -- ones that actually claimed their accreditation from the worthless World Association until the very day they got their DETC accreditation.
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Dr Bear its a good question if schools that cheated and lied even if achieve accreditation can be trusted.

    Do they deserve to be trusted?
    DETC seems to allow it if the school changes it ways and comply by policies of quality that DETC accredited institutions abide.

    So far nor Secretary of Education or CHEA requested DETC to stop this practice.

    The good side is that some less then wonderful get their act together and no longer deceive the public. They also provide better service to their graduates.

    No miracles as atleast one school ACCS was granted DETC accreditation, it went out of business as far as I know or changed the name again as I can't find it under their previously changed name.
  5. Dono

    Dono Member

    I can think of one decent answer. The cost of their DBA programs is between $16K - $18K. Well, at least for two of the schools I looked at. The RA program (NCU) that I've debated starting is around $30K (military).

    If my goal was to stay with government work when I retired I might go with a DETC option since it's cheaper and meets the requirement for the government jobs I've looked at. From one job posting on USA JOBs it says "Only degrees from an accredited college or university recognized by the Department of Education are acceptable to meet positive education requirements or to substitute education for experience."

    If it's good enough for the government and it meets my cost paremeters then I would go for it.

    To be honest though, I think I'll retire and probably teach part-time. With that said and the fact I have the GI bill, I'll go with NCU.
  6. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    What's most puzzling to me is why some (most?) DETC-accredited institutions will not accept a degree from a DETC-accredited school to teach at that school. That seems to speak volumes about the value of DETC accreditation.
  7. ITJD

    ITJD Guest

    The answer to that question comes a couple of lines later in your same post. If you're going to electrician's school you're going to be an electrician. If you're going to a school to be a mechanic, you're likely to need to work on cars after graduation.

    In terms of academia the point is to become an academic, first and foremost. If you do well in business that's awesome.

    I realize that people have been told that the path to being successful in your career is a college education. To some extent this is true if you're going to school to be professionally focused (law, medicine, etc) but at the point you make that decision, you're really not in academia, you're in the high-end equivalent of an electrician's school or mechanic's school in terms of paradigm, that happens to be an academic environment due to seriousness and fit.

    So if you're not in one of those professional lines (and the MBA falls there too in some ways) you need to realize that DETC isn't going to cut it in terms of the people you'll need to impress and interview with. As such there's the meat of the argument, which no one disagrees with.

    The statement that people disagree with is: "Hey I'm in college so I'm going to be an academic" Most people don't intend this based on years of media conditioning and resulting opinion, but this is the root cause of the discussion from my point of view.

    Here's a counter argument:

    1. You're using the same books.
    2. You're using the same tools.
    3. You have two programs comparably priced.
    4. You have a choice between ITT Tech (DETC) or a state school.
    5. The faculty is comparable but the state school has a research edge.
    6. ITT is DETC, State school is RA
    7. You can go anywhere you want after the state school.
    8. You're limited in where you can go after ITT.

    Why choose the DETC school? I'd love to hear a credible argument for it as there are far more DETC schools around my immediate neighborhood. It'd be more convenient.

  8. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    In addition to the availability of more flexible formats and payment plans there are also much cheaper doctorates. In my work a DETC doctorate would be a big deal. The Georgia law enforcement community isn't focused NA versus RA, so if you're not an academic but a cop with a doctorate you will be a big deal in your little part of the world. Right now DETC has mostly education and business doctorates, but if they offer one for CJ it could be a big seller. If your dream is to be an academic in a traditional sense (tenured with an office and all the perks) you are swimming upstream from the start...it seldom happens for people with the fanciest degrees, and a DL doctorate of any kind is probably not going to get you there. If you need a doctorate to qualify for a position in a non-academic field with few doctorate holders it might be wiser to spend 15-20K for DETC instead of 40K+ for RA.

    As a side note, if a DETC school creates a DA or EdD in history I bet it will be overwhelmed with applicants. Lots of people chose AMU when it was only DETC, because it offered cool liberal arts degrees that no one else had a graduate level.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2010
  9. mongoose65

    mongoose65 New Member

    Major, fantastic post. Brought a smile to this jaded, cynical face!
  10. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    I agree...Major gets right to the heart of the issue. Almost, or maybe all, RA schools use technology to make DL students march along with their campus peers. Many DETC schools are no more flexible, but there are exceptions. If RA schools offered more programs like their old correspondence degrees (the old flagship B.G.S.) they'd have it all...right now the don't. There's still good reasons for working adults to look elsewhere, especially for grad school.
  11. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member


    Thanks for your comments, I have added a few of my own to your quote:

  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure its the case.
    First there is simply much smaller # of people who will teach with DETC degree. Most of the applicants for instructor jobs are RA degree holders.

    Second I do see people with DETC degrees in DETC colleges but usually its not the only degree, they also hold RA graduate degree or foreign equivalent.
    I assume that there is 1000 RA degree holders on one DECT degree holder.
    And they RA's keep on graduating 1000's of new grads yearly.

    This are changing, DETC Doctorates maybe interesting to see how they evolve. I can see Instructors / professors with such DETC doctorates teaching at NA universities.

    DETC recognition and scope grew so if the trend continues they will achieve higher recognition with the time.
    The main reason is that majority of people who attend and graduate DETC university are happy with their degrees and the whole experience.
    Some who didn't do good homework will deal with issues related to higher RA acceptance and that many RA's don't accept DETC on the regular basis.
  13. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Limited funds. Unique educational program. Accessible modality. Other reasons. That's for undergraduate degrees and some masters degrees though, because you may be able to present those in many situations as acceptable alternatives to RA degrees. However, those DETC doctorates are not accepted in any meaningful context of higher education teaching and research (or business), and so should be avoided...
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member


    Do you think DETC Doctorates may be utilized to a degree in DETC or NA universities?
    I wander if one can get principal job in a school?
    Especially if they hold good masters degree prior to their Doctorate.
    I see interest in these programs and we will see how it plays out.

    ALso more then ever traditional schools are now offering DL, DETC must to remain innovative and lead the DL accreditation.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2010
  15. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    DETC doctorates are useless for getting teaching jobs in RA colleges and will probably remain useless in the future. That's a guess based on the current fact that many schools won't even look at DL RA doctors for hire.

    As for landing a principal job, these jobs are highly political within the district, and require a ton of experience and a masters degree; I can't imagine that a DETC doctorate in education would provide one with any significant advantage in getting a principal's job for the first time.
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No one says that, that I know of. I agree that many people have succeeded with their degrees from DETC-accredited schools. However, there remains no compelling reason to attend a school that provides an inferior degree (no matter if only slightly or mightily inferior) when perfectly good RA options are available in almost every case. There are always exceptions, of course.

    A lot of the defense of taking a degree from a DETC-accredited school seems to come from after-the-fact rationalization. But the truth remains: taking a degree from a DETC-accredited school always comes with limitations--even if those limitations don't affect certain individuals--but they almost never come with any distinct advantages over RA options.
  17. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    All of the above is, for me, a really persuasive argument to do the "Turing Test" for degrees.

    In its simplest manifestation:

    1. Take five Master's theses in a given field, randomly, from the shelves of a DETC-accredited school.

    2. Take five Master's theses in the same field, randomly, from the shelves of Harvard.

    3. Remove identifying information, and have them evaluated by five experienced professors in that field from other regionally-accredited universities.

    4. Repeat with other schools, and other disciplines.

    Wouldn't that be wonderfully persuasive information to have?

    If I ran an unaccredited or DETC-accredited school**, I would eagerly pursue this. If the results were positive, I'd publicize them vigorously. If they weren't, I'd revisit my program and try to improve it.
    ** And I did. I do wish I'd thought of this in 1990.
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    That's not true. There is available much evidence from which general conclusions may be drawn. Those general conclusions, of course, do not exclude individual situations. But just because some people are exceptions to the rule doesn't negate the differences and somehow makes the two options equal. They are most certainly not.
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    That's one interpretation. But there are assertions we can also observe. To wit:

    DETC accreditation is much simpler to obtain. We are still left with one school (AMU/APUS) that has gone on from DETC accreditation to RA. (This excludes a couple that earned both simultaneously. But even there, DETC accreditation came much more quickly.)

    DETC has decided to accredit some schools with really horrible histories. Did these schools improve? Perhaps. I certainly suspect so. But none of them have gone on to RA.

    Degrees from DETC-accredited schools are not acceptable in many academic and employment situations. This is never true in the reverse (where a degree from a DETC-accredited school would be acceptable but one from an RA school would not be).

    DETC has visibly violated its own standards in accrediting schools. It accredited schools actively engaged in deceptive advertising practices right up until they were accredited (even during their application periods). DETC accredited several schools that award degrees outside of DETC's scope. And so on.

    DETC-accredited schools award degrees that are less acceptable to stakeholders, yet they offer no advantages in return for this sacrifice. This alone makes them bad choices for the vast majority of degree seekers (with the exception of unique programs like those offered at HMU).

    Welcome to the ol' bottom line.
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No. It is typical for an RA school to allow up to 75% of credits to be transferred in, requiring 30 s.h. be done at the school after enrollment. And at the Big 3, 100% of credits can be transferred in. Test: Fail
    Not relevant to the RA/NA discussion. Test: Fail
    Not relevant to the RA/NA discussion. Test: Fail
    There are many non-"behemoth" RA schools. Test: Fail
    There are RA schools offering many different delivery systems. There's nothing unique to the methods employed by DETC-accredited schools. Test: Fail
    So do many RA schools. Test: Fail
    Good to hear. Of course, many people also have positive experiences at RA schools. Test: Fail
    "Some." But there really isn't a standard difference between DETC and RA schools in this regard. Test: Fail
    Transfer credit policies vary dramatically from institution to institution, irrespective of accreditation. Test: Fail
    Congratulations. I hope it will continue to do so for the rest of your days and that you never experience any of the limitations others have faced.
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