Which degree would best suit my future?

Discussion in 'Education, Teaching and related degrees' started by LittleShakespeare90, Dec 14, 2022.

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  1. Dear friends,

    I hope you're having a wonderful day and an even more magical holiday season! I was wondering if I could pick your brain on something.

    I've been teaching high school for seven years now, and I really do love it. I want to go back to school though. I think I want to get my educational doctorate (Ed.D), but I'm not sure. I guess it depends on my future goals.

    I would love a degree that allows me to indulge in my love for English literature while simultaneously helping me to improve my teaching skills in the K-12 classroom. Also, I would love to maybe move up to the college level. Maybe I can teach future educators! Would I need a PhD for that or an Ed.D?

    Also, can you give me some advice on good schools to get these degrees from? I like Johns Hopkins since they have an online degree, but I kind of have my heart set on Columbia's Teacher's College because their degree is specifically tailored to incorporate literature.

    Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you so much! :emoji_black_heart:
     
  2. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    Those sound like conflicting requirements to me. Either you do a doctorate in English literature OR you can get a doctorate about pedagogy. I have doubts about being able to do both competently in one doctorate. Perhaps do whatever is most important to your career as a regular doctorate, then later do a dissertation-only doctorate in the other? That might be more affordable/realistic than trying to do a combined doctorate.
     
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  3. Charles Fout

    Charles Fout Active Member

    Again, Praying for your continued healing. Please take your time in establishing and knocking down your targets.

    I cannot overemphasize my belief in the value of netwоrking. Do you know anyone who has attained the station you desire? Have you discussed your goals with any mentor? Ask yourself really, does the higher degree provide a means to an end? Also, ask yourself if are you so fully recovered that you are ready to reenter this highest level of the rare air of graduate education.

    [Self-imposed] MINIMIZE Considered
     
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  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is what the Doctor of Arts degree was designed to do. Unfortunately, it is a unicorn anymore.
     
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  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This may shed some light on it. A quote: "....the Doctorate of Arts degree was designed to award people in a given specialty the highest level of professional development in the arts. This degree signifies that the awarded is a professional and is capable of expanding existing horizons of knowledge and perception within a given field. It is my understanding that the Doctorate of Arts Degree was originally developed to train candidates to be college teachers."(emphasis mine - J.)

    https://cdn.website-editor.net/2f18cda99c3549dba489771bb02b5111/files/uploaded/Why%20The%20Doctorate%20of%20Arts%20Degree%20.pdf
     
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  7. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    This is close to 27,000 USD in tuition alone. Why would you call this "amazing"? Personally, I think that it's amazing that there are people who are willing to pay this kind of money for any degree in pedagogy. If someone is going to cover that amount for you, I could see the possible reason for the excitement. But I don't see anything "special" here for students who would be forced to pay the hefty sum.
     
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  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    And you would be correct. That was exactly its purpose. It failed not because it was a bad idea, but because the PhD continued to be perceived as THE degree to have. And given that the human capital market in academia is heavily tilted towards the employer, those employers could make those distinctions, freezing out DA grads.

    This is why it is vital to be as sure as one can be in making such a selection. And the narrower in scope your degree election is, the more sure you should be. Specific to this case, I would not be too confident in starting out in an academic career with a DA, but more sure if I was already an "insider" and knew my employer wanted me to do this and would move me up if I did. That kind of decision-making.

    Because the OP didn't include his/her educational background, and isn't very sure about his/her future goals, I didn't feel like I could offer specific advice.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It's in the eye of the beholder. If that is, indeed, the amount for the whole degree, it's pretty low.
     
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  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Depends on where you attempt to use it. It is an unusual award, so I would expect its utility to be rather hit-and-miss. This is why it is critical for you to be as sure as possible regarding your desired outcomes and whether your choice(s) will get you there.

    While posters on this board can give you information, our assessments are our own and may or may not be relevant to you. That's your call.
     
    LittleShakespeare90 likes this.
  11. Thanks so much, everyone. The DA degree sounds wonderful, but I'm sort of leaning towards an Ed.D because I can teach at the college level with it, or move up the ranks in my high school career. It can also be obtained while I work, so I wouldn't have to sacrifice my job like I would have to for a PhD.

    I have a master's degree from NYU in humanities, and I became a high school English teacher through New Jersey's Alternate Route program. I would love a career in higher education someday though! :D
     
  12. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    There's not much of a difference between PhD and EdD programs. Flexibility and convenience is dependent upon the individual program. Flexibility should be the same for any doctoral program that is 100% online, doesn't require synchronous courses, and doesn't require a practicum or internship. Some EdD programs require a practicum and/or internship. Some EdD and other "applied" doctorates require an action project that'll involve work in the field.

    A doctor of arts will check the "doctorate" box. If you're looking for a full-time college teaching position, especially tenure-track, then it's hard to tell whether the degree would be competitive since it's so rare. Research-oriented universities probably want to see a traditional dissertation.
     
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  13. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    I would also look into the learning aspect in addition to the perception and box checking. Having done a pedagogical qualification in Europe, I wouldn't recommend doing pedagogy as a degree beyond the Master's level. I often talk to other teachers and they uniformly find pedagogical theories (beyond the teaching fundamentals) to be incredibly boring. You need to be a real pedagogy enthusiast to enjoy this kind of stuff at the highest theoretical level, even if you're dealing with the more applied stuff. If you love the humanities, you would probably enjoy Harrison Middleton University's Doctor of Arts program, which is based on the Great Books tradition (https://www.hmu.edu/doctor-of-arts). This program is accredited by DEAC (non-regional), but it would probably be a lot more engaging than a pedagogy Doctor of Arts program. I can't offer any guarantees though. However, it's offered at a simillar price range (it actually costs less money), albeit it has a less appealing accreditation. Again, it all depends on the person and the goals, but I would look into the specific course content before even thinking about how it's going to be perceived. After all, you will be engaging with the doctoral-level content, especially in the U.S. where pure disseration-based doctorates aren't really an option. You might as well treat it as an intellectual growth opportunity.
     
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  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    $22,500 for fewer teaching opportunities. Might as well pay the extra $4,000 for a regionally accredited degree that actually covers what one wants to study.
     
  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    These are the four "pedagogy" courses you'll have to take in the Murray State University program. The rest of the courses are for the applied project and specialization. Any American EdD or PhD program that's in education will have courses related to curriculum design or pedagogy. They're education degrees. If you take out the education courses, they cease to be education degrees. Instructional technology is a hot skill to have.

    Fall 1 ENG 900 Methods of Analysis and Reflection in English Teaching 3

    Spring 1 ENG 907 Theories of Curriculum Design and Application in English 3

    Fall 2 ENG 908 Assessment in English 3

    Spring 2 ENG 977 Instructional Technology for English 3
     
  16. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    Description
    ENG 907 Theories of Curriculum Design and Application in English (3). Advanced survey of historic and current curriculum models and theories for the broad field of English. Emphasis on understanding current Kentucky English curriculum standards and implementing standards in the design of English courses and programs. Sight based projects may be required. Prerequisite: ENG 900.

    https://www.coursicle.com/murraystate/courses/ENG/907/

    Sounds really exciting...not :rolleyes:
     
  17. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    Maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer having one-to-one conversations with tutors, reading serious books and partially designing my own program of doctoral study (Harrison Middleton's promise) over digging into the Kentucky curriculum. Everyone is different though.
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Hang on. It isn't a sliding scale. A doctorate from a DEAC-accredited school would be next-to-useless in starting an academic career.
     
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Land's sakes! Do them fellers at Murray State actually have t' teach Kentucky English? Most kids in these here parts pick 't up natcherly at home... Says here on Facebook that Kentucky English has a uh -- benefit I didn't know about. :)
    "Kentucky Accent ranked 26th sexiest accent."
    https://www.facebook.com/MarioAndersonTV/videos/kentucky-accent-ranked-26-sexiest-accent-list/600193623834046/
    Well, Facebook's actually good fer sump'n after all, I guess. :)
     
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