When is an Unaccredited University not a Mill

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by jackrussell, Aug 14, 2010.

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  1. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    How are those people getting faculty jobs while graduates with accredited online Ph.Ds aren't?
    :D You, Kizmet, are my new favorite person on DegreeInfo.
     
  2. Lukeness

    Lukeness New Member

    I would say the best way of checking the utility of an unaccredited degree is finding out if ANY accredited colleges will accept their credits. If none at all, then it may as well be a mill.
     
  3. TMW2009

    TMW2009 New Member

    They have likely been entrenched at their jobs for years now, probably prior to the big expose of KWU by the government.

    I still think its rather embarrasing to see faculty members proudly touting their KWU degrees. That 100 page 'dissertation' that they had to do and pay to have published seems to have done them pretty well.
     
  4. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    When it's this:

    http://www.sanfordburnham.org/training_and_education/sanford-burnham_graduate_schoo.aspx

    The answer to the question is 'An unaccredited school isn't a degree-mill when it's academically credible'.

    The problem with that, as others in this thread have already noted, is that it might not be obvious to outsiders which schools are credible and which aren't.

    My example was chosen because its strengths are obvious.

    The government is throwing money at it. Here's just one example of many, a $97 million grant from the the National Institutes of Health. (This is one of the four largest recipients of NIH research funding in the country.) The state of Florida paid them $350 million in incentives to build a second campus in Orlando.

    http://www.sanfordburnham.org/news__events/news_archive/2008/september_2_2008.aspx

    It participates in scientific collaborations with institutions all around the world. One example of many:

    http://www.ia.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=1533

    The graduate school only has about a dozen students at this point. Each student gets free tuition, all expenses paid, plus a generous stipend. (This school pays students to attend it, but it's very selective.)

    Faculty outnumber students by something like 10/1 and are kind of an international 'best-and-brightest' bunch. Keep in mind that all of these individuals are principal investigators and heads of laboratories, and might have many people working under them, associate researchers, post-docs, technicians and so on. All in all, the scientific staff numbers about 850.

    Click on the faculty for descriptions of their laboratories' research and for information on where they earned their degrees etc.

    http://www.sanfordburnham.org/research_and_faculty/faculty_a-z.aspx

    I'm waiting for somebody here to win the first California-approved Nobel Prize. They're getting there:

    http://www.japanprize.jp/en/prize_past_2005_prize02.html

    Recent news and events:

    http://www.sanfordburnham.org/news_and_events/latest_news_releases.aspx

    Google search results from .edu sites.
    Results from .gov sites.
    Results from .ac.uk sites.
    Google scholar results.

    Image results.
     
  5. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    In most cases that I know of, they already have faculty teaching positions with their RA masters degree and are using the PhD to get tenure, a tenure track position, or a raise/promotion.

    I've met multiple people like this in academia. Nowadays, they seem to be more likely to be caught. In one case a tenured faculty member got a PhD from LaSalle Univ for (I believe) the purpose of getting a raise and eligibility for full professorship. The university refused to recognize her degree. They didn't penalize her, they just didn't reward her either.

    In another, a teacher used an unaccredited PhD (it might have been from Kennedy Western) to gain a raise at one university. However, when she tried to find a job at another university she got the news that her degree was a sham. Now she is pretty much trapped teaching where she is, because no other school will accept the degree.
     
  6. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    mcjon: "What does it matter whether the person did work to get the unaccredited degree if there is no way to determine whether the work was equivalent to work done for an accredited degree? "

    John: Here's one way. For many years, I've been suggesting an experiment in which, for instance, five dissertations in a given subject are randomly checked out of the Harvard library, and five more taken from the archives of an unaccredited (perhaps a California-approved school. Remove identifying marks, and let the ten theses be evaluated by experts in the field, who are familiar with doctoral research. Their task is to determine the five from Harvard and the five from the unaccredited place. The results of this "Turing test" could be most interesting.
     
  7. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Active Member

    While it is true that unaccredited does not equal diploma mill, from one perspective it doesn't matter that much to many people because there are many that will automatically assume that if it is unaccredited then it must be a diploma mill.

    The number of legitimate unaccredited institutions seems to be decreasing. I think number of unaccredited legitimate institutions (for general education) is on a downward spiral. Some are becoming accredited after long periods of unaccredited operations. Others are going out of business. I think that the forces in play here are two-fold. First, distance learning has become accepted and accrediting agencies will now seriously consider distance learning only institutions. Second, unaccredited institutions are less accepted because the Internet has increased the number of diploma mills and because there are now accredited options.
     
  9. mba_expo

    mba_expo New Member

    @ John Bear: As a control group, one could get another five dissertations from a 4th-tier RA schools. Would we see three (or two;)) distinct levels of quality?

    @ mcjon77: A "time bomb" I'm keeping tabs on wrote a 100+ page disseration for his "PhD" and had it reviewed by three dissertation advisors. The stated "university" (an FBI-identified diploma mill) is a fake and so are the listed advisors (fictious names...OR experts without any publications/internet trace whatsoever). No doubt you'll agree that it is not the writing of a 100 or 300-page disseration that gets one a degree, but the addition one makes to the body of knowledge in a particular field, as determined by peer review. Without such review, a dissertation might as well be 100 pages of "Lorem ipsum dolor..." filler text.
     
  10. thomaskolter

    thomaskolter New Member

    Depends I'm not an expert but it depends for me why your getting the degree? Religious degree granters often use more secular an approach ,I'm not including my program in this folks just saying the fact, go to God's Big Ol' Bible College they might not require skills in biblical languages arguing there are English translations of the KJV so why demand that for a typical minister? Go to the Catholic University of America your going to learn several languages and do translations at some level for a degree.

    Does that make one school worse or better, not at all in my view. I for one find any such degree silly but if your a working minister and want a degree the first makes sense. If your a Catholic Priest and they want you to get a doctorate the other is demanded most likely.

    Its a matter of persepctive. In the case of other degrees its different if your seeking a degree in psychology its necessary to count, it be accredited.
     

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