What is the supposed problem with the MSM/L?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Maxwell_Smart, Oct 13, 2019.

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  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    Your point exactly?
     
  2. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    You know, when Levicoff is a rude ass it has a certain charm about it. His retorts, at a bare minimum, don't come off like middle school taunts.

    My point is when you personally attack another poster it is odd to accuse a mod of always "coming to her defense." She's a mod doing what mods are supposed to do. If you want Kizmet to stop rushing to sanantone's defense you perhaps might consider not launching personal attacks on sanantone.

    You sir, have the solution to the problem in your very hands without even realizing it.
     
  3. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Hmmmmmm . . . I like that. I think I might just make that my epitath:

    "He was a rude ass, but he had a certain charm about it."

    Thanks, J. :D
     
    Neuhaus likes this.
  4. JoshD

    JoshD Active Member

    Well this was an interesting read!

    That said, I took the time to look up the core requirements for a Masters in Science - Management at Texas A&M University - Commerce.

    Core:

    Finance for Decision Makers
    Marketing Environment
    Operations and Organizations
    Financial Management
    Marketing Management
    Management and Organizational Behavior
    Quality Management
    Strategic Management
    Applied Business Research

    After the core requirements there is a list of approximately 15 courses in which one can pick the remaining credits. Essentially none of those are finance related so no need to list them.

    I also decided to compare to the courses I completed for my MBA:

    Principle Centered Leadership and Ethics
    Contemporary Issues in Management
    Research Methods
    Data Analysis for Managers
    Accounting for Managers
    Financial Management
    Marketing Management
    Strategic Management
    Management Economics
    Behavorial Management
    Competitive Advantage and Strategy
    Management Information Systems

    So while you could argue that the MBA is more quantitative than the MSM, I think it would be incorrect to state that the MSM is not quantitative. I personally chose an MBA because it is more widely known. It eliminated the conversation in which I have to explain my degree to a potential employer.
     
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    OK, which school was that?
     
  6. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Almost every college has a website now. Can you link to your program?
     
  7. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I reread the OP, and I believe the thread is about master's degrees in management or leadership. The OP even typed (or leadership).

    I don't think taking one finance course in an MBA program makes a huge difference. An MBA without a concentration will require courses and have electives in the various sub-fields of business. An MBA, in reality, is a management degree. It attempts to teach students how to manage the various operations of an organization, which is why it doesn't only cover one area. Managers seldom do one thing. They might have to order supplies, manage a budget, know human resource policies, do payroll, make tax deposits, figure out the logistics of shipping, etc.

    I see that JoshD shared an example of a management program. It requires finance and looks very similar to an MBA program; it just has fewer quantitative courses. I don't think there's much consistency among these programs. There are management programs that look quite different.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
    JoshD likes this.
  8. JoshD

    JoshD Active Member

    In all honesty, if one listed those courses without stating that it was a MSM program, one could easily assume it could be an MBA program. Speaking for myself, but I did not choose an MBA to become an expert in a field. If I wanted that I would have chose a MS.
     
  9. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    There is too much variation across too many programs to say there is a definitive track for each type of degree, and though there is a setup schools are supposed to follow, that doesn't always wind up being the case. There are some times where people were actually put on tracks, stayed on for years, were about to graduate only to be told they didn't fulfill all of the requirements and that academics made a mistake with their course setting. I had this happen to me at a non-profit school, and after I withdrew and enrolled elsewhere, I rained down on them with legal hellfire and got a refund and my entire remaining tuition cancelled out.

    I knew a student once that thought she was about to graduate with a degree in early childhood development, but was told upon graduation petition that her course setup was missing some things and that she could only graduate with a degree in "individual studies" with a certificate in early childhood development. She was devastated and I would've sued if I were her. The course of her entire life was negatively affected because ECD was her dream and she had a job lined up that required the degree she thought she was getting, but no chance of that without her going back for more education now. So sad.

    Anyway, let's take a look at WGU's MSML vs their MBA:

    ---------MSML---------
    Managing Organizations and Leading People
    Managing Human Capital
    Becoming an Effective Leader
    Business Acumen
    Management Communication
    Leading Teams
    Ethical Leadership
    Data-Driven Decision Making
    Change Management and Innovation
    Strategic Management
    Management and Leadership Capstone

    ------MBA------
    Managing Organizations and Leading People
    Managing Human Capital
    Management Communication
    Marketing
    Accounting for Decision Makers
    Ethical Leadership
    Financial Management
    Data-Driven Decision Making
    Operations Management
    Global Economics for Managers
    MBA Capstone

    Comparatively there, the MBA is clearly financially focused. I could post some MSM/L programs that do have a finance course or two, I could post an MBA with at least one fewer finance course, someone else could post examples where both are different, I could post more to counter it and we could do this until the end of time because there are so many programs out there. Let's just chalk this one up to YMMV because in reality that's what it is.
     
    LearningAddict likes this.
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I guess people's definition of finance is different. WGU's MBA has one finance course. Accounting isn't finance, and it would be weird if an MBA program didn't have at least one accounting course. Economics is related to finance, but it's not an actual finance course.

    Their MBA program has more management courses than anything else, so I would say it has a management focus. Even their quantitative courses have a management focus.
     
  11. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Splitting hairs. Accounting and finance both deal with the management of money and assets and it's common for the two to be discussed together. Regardless, the point is clear. One has a focus on money and numbers related to money (MBA) since it has three whole courses devoted to it and the other doesn't. Debating what's in black and white is now going off the deep end.
     
  12. JoshD

    JoshD Active Member

    I will agree that an individual who wants to work with numbers with likely go the MBA route. An "acquaintance" of mine went to East Central University (my undergrad institution) and got his degree in accounting. Followed it up with an MBA from Duke and went through being CFO of Nike, Guess, etc. and is now the President and CEO of US Polo Assn. I believe those who want to be decision-makers and handle large financial decisions are going to opt for the MBA.
     
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  13. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    so, no school name?
     
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  14. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what the quote has to do with what you posted, but the school was Ashworth, and this was well over a decade ago. They may or may not operate the same way today, I don't know, but back then Intro to Business was mandatory as were a number of other business courses. They gave you a course list and you took what they gave you for the most part.
     
  15. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    It still is mandatory for some tracks. For all others, Achieving Academic Excellence is mandated. But if you're talking over a decade back, I don't think Achieving Academic Excellence was even a course there then. As far as I know, everybody had to take Intro to Business, and if you failed you were automatically dismissed from the program. That process is still in place for Achieving Academic Excellence, fail that somehow and you're out and rightfully so.
     
  16. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    When I started my Associate of Applied Science (AAS) degree in Security Management at Ashworth, Intro to Business was the mandatory first course. However, they changed the programs to Associate of Science which now requires Achieving Academic Excellence. I had to take that course once I completed my AAS and transferred to the Bachelor of Science program.
     
  17. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Yeah, it looks like they've made quite a few changes. I hadn't looked at the catalog in years, but a quick perusal and I find it looks like both Achieving Academic Excellence and Intro to Business are required courses now depending on the program you take. For some programs both are on the list. Another thing I see is that they now have tracks you can choose (AAS, AS, AA, BA, BS). When I was enrolled there it was different, they had an AS and a BS and that was it.
     
  18. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    That's interesting. I didn't know that. When o started my program was AS but midway they just changed it to AAS and the AS option would require me to take additional courses. Did you finish there or did you leave?
     
  19. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I finished. It was a good experience. I was really impressed with how the administration went the extra mile so many times to make things work for me when there was an issue.
     
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  20. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    A minority of the courses makes a focus? Almost the entire degree is about leadership and management, so how is that not a focus?
     

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