Want to List DBA as PhD on CV: Legally

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by jaiho, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    What I have noticed is that many of the new DBAs, DMs are 3 year programs and not 4 year as the traditional PhD. Some of them are 3 year part time as the DBA from kennesaw state. The programs below are 3 year programs:

    KSU Coles College of Business - DBA Program
    Doctor of Management - Organizational Development and Change
    Doctor of Management - Weatherhead School of Management

    The Case western program even offers an upgrade from a DM to a PhD for an extra year. I believe this is clear evidence of the DBA and DM being offered as "light" versions of the PhD.

    I believe that Universities are seeing these doctorates as potential revenue generators, they cannot call them PhDs because a traditional PhD takes 5 years full time so it would take 8 years to do part time. This is too long for a student to take. The strategy is to rename these programs as executive doctorates in order to justify the 3 year part time that these programs claim and target them towards executives that want a Dr title.

    Initially, the DBA and PhD were equivalent but now I see that this might not longer be the case given the DBA program differences.

    A personal opinion and nothing to do with a major conspiracy but just a new strategy to make more programs to generate revenue.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2012
  2. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    RFValve, you did not offer one (1) RA university that offers a DBA as a watered down version of the PhD with:
    - fewer courses
    - not requiring statistics
    - not requiring a dissertation (but a project instead).

    Instead, you showed a link to a non-RA school (Columbia Southern) and to a DM program, which is not a DBA.

    Again, can you name just one? Pray tell?

  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    DMs are also professional degrees equivalent to DBAs. First you mentioned that there are "No" universities offering upgrades from DBA to PhDs, I showed one but you are not happy because it is not a DBA but DM. Then you mentioned that it is possible to bridge from non AACSB to AACSB doctorate with a post doc certificate.

    There are examples of new DBAs with less requirements than PhDs, just look at the news DBAs offered by Walden that can be completed in 3 years while its PhD in 4 years. I already provided many examples of DBA programs that can be completed in 3 years part time while PhDs are 4 to 5 year full time programs, it seems to me that this converations is not going anywhere so I won't be responding to your posts as it seems that this is becoming personal.
  4. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    RFValve, it's not personal when you are asked to back up your claims. You are asked to provide examples to back up your allegation that RA university's are offering DBAs as a watered down versions of PhDs with (your written claims):
    - fewer courses
    - not requiring statistics
    - not requiring a dissertation (but a project instead).

    The closest you've been able to provide are:
    - non-RA examples
    - DM examples (DMs are not DBAs)
    - and a couple of DBAs that can be completed in as little as three years (no guarantees, but it's possible).

    RFValve, Anthony Pina conducted empirical research about DBAs and PhDs and it does not support your theory that DBAs are watered down PhDs.
  5. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Hello RFValve. I have no desire (or intention) in launching personal attacks. I hope that my years of posting on Degreeinfo are evidence. However, since my team of five researchers has spent hundreds of hours looking at nearly 600 graduate business programs, (including the curriculum of the 100+ doctoral programs programs accredited by AACSB, IACBE and ACBSP), and the terminal degrees of over 6,000 business faculty, we have found that the common wisdom regarding the Doctor of Business Administration (DBA) degree does not hold up in practice. None of my research team has a DBA and most are seeking a Ph.D. My institution does not currently offer a DBA, so, other than a keen interest in the topic of degree titles, I do not have a vested interest.

    Whether a program is available on a 3 year or 4 year timetable is not a true indicator of either the length or rigor of a program. An institution that only offers doctoral courses during two semesters (with summers off) will take longer than a program the offers 4 quarters of instruction year round.

    The important thing to look for is the total number of units required. For Ph.D. and DBA programs, it is at least 60 semester/90 quarter hours. For DM programs it was less. Northcentral was the only DBA business/management program with fewer required hours (54).

    The Case Western Reserve program was the only DM program of its kind that we found. Basically the Ph.D. was the DM coursework with an extra year to prepare for a research dissertation. We found no evidence (other than the fewer units required by Northcentral) that any of the DBA's were " 'light' versions of the PhD".

    According to the Council of Graduate Schools (the only entity that has done a longitudinal student of doctoral completion with multiple institutions) students in "traditional" Ph.D program can take anywhere from 3-14 years on average to complete their doctorates (depending upon the discipline). A typical 60 semester hour doctorate would include 16 courses (48 credit hours), leaving 12 credit hours for dissertation (not all program require the same number of dissertation hours. Some require fewer courses and more dissertation). A student with no transfer credit taking 2 courses per term would finish the coursework (up to comps and dissertation) in eight terms. So students in programs offering 3-4 terms of coursework each year would finish their courses earlier than one offering courses only 2 terms per year (even if you could take a summer course).
    Initially the DBA was created because the Harvard Business School was forbidden by Harvard Corp. to offer the Ph.D. Only the College of Arts and Sciences can award the Ph.D., so the business school invented its own research doctorate, the DBA in the 1940s. This is precisely the same reason why we have the Ed.D. degree (Harvard Graduate School of Education wanted its own doctorate and could offer the Ph.D., so it invented the Ed.D. in the 1920s).

    Other than the fact that some DBA programs are set up so that students can finish the same quantity of work in less total time, I am not sure what differences there would be. Is someone who works a 4 day/10 hour work schedule putting in fewer total work hours than someone working a 5 day/8 hour schedule? Of course not, they are both working a 40 hour week. Is someone who completes 16 courses and a dissertation in 5 years completing more than someone who completes 16 courses and a dissertation in 3 years?

    According to the U.S. Department of Education, the DBA is a research degree equivalent in level and content to the Ph.D.

    This may be true for non-RA programs or for programs with the specialized business accreditation. It is not true for those that are RA and also secondarily accredited.
  6. Sauron

    Sauron New Member

    The conferred degree should give you a clue as to how to indicate the degree awarded on your CV or resume.
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Awesome. :smile:
  8. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    So you want us to approve of your intention to lie on your resume?

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