Venezuela

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Kizmet, Jul 26, 2018.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    It's not Mexico that's pretending the whole hemisphere is their own rightful sphere of influence. Or "near abroad", as Putin might call it....

    There was, briefly. But if U.S. policymakers won't pay attention to their own neighborhood in a sustained fashion, they can't complain about poor results.
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  3. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Am I right in thinking the Obama administration backed a failed coup a few years ago?

    As I have said, the U.S. cannot afford to permit Venezuela to slide into the arms of Bejing. We will take any necessary action, possibly through neighboring states, to bring the chaos to an end. But an actual invasion is the last, bitterest, riskiest, resort.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Is there any evidence that the Chinese are actually interesting in jumping into that particular wood chipper? The Maduro regime is too broke to service debt, and they've already shown that nothing they might offer as collateral for a loan would actually convey in the event that it wasn't paid.
     
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Yes. Not surprising. Beijing is doing its best to extend its reach worldwide. But I've been reading that even China is having doubts about investing in such a chaotic situation. Not to say they won't though.
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

  9. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    That was part of why I asked the question, because the Chinese recently took over operations of the main airport in Zambia due to nonpayment of debt, and apparently might do the same to the power company there. Based on the Maduro regime's track record, though, if they tried that in Venezuela they might not get very far. So I'm not surprised the analysis nosborne48 cites says they're doing less and less there.
     
  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Why ever not unless you think the U.S. would block the effort? China's activities are generally pretty opaque. There's oil in Venezuela, lots and lots of oil. I can envision a method whereby the Chinese could extract repayment (and much more) without being too obvious about it. Just consider how extractive based economies usually play out when the extractors (so to speak) are funding the local government. Take Nigeria for example. Governments that do not rely on taxation to support themselves needn't trouble overmuch about popularity.
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Or democracy. Or human rights.
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Nigeria is not a very good example, since (for all its many difficulties) it's been democratic for a while now. Equatorial Guinea is a much better illustration of your point.
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    ...and to acknowledge the elephant in the room: Francine, happy birthday! (c) Disney


    Russia. Canonical example is Russia. Kremlin = Gazprom+Rosneft, and vice versa. "A gas station masquerading as a country" (c) Sen. John McCain
     
  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

  17. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    The Chinese M.O. in Africa is to operate their projects like little Chinese colonies. Thousands of Chinese workers are brought in and local Africans aren't typically hired.

    So I can imagine Chinese petroleum projects in Venezuela where production takes place in what amount to Chinese compounds, complete with paramilitary Chinese security, where China gets its investment back by sort of a barter arrangement, by being allowed to fill up their tankers to feed China's growing petroleum demand, and the deal is sweetened for Caracas by giving them a revenue stream upon which their regime might come to depend.
     
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    In a market economy, you have millionaires. In a socialist economy, you have quadrillionaires.
     
    decimon likes this.
  20. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    That's the skinny.
     

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