Value/Utility of UA Degree - Louisiana Baptist University

It's true that AI degrees are currently unaccredited. However, I doubt that anyone in the Catholic community dismisses their degrees as "problematic" -- given that the Archbishop of Denver personally sits on the Board of Trustees. Furthermore, I count 13 Bishops, nine Archbishops, and two Cardinals on their "Advisory Board".

AI is clearly operating with the consent and approval of the US Catholic hierarchy, and this effectively serves as a form of "accreditation" in Catholic contexts. I will acknowledge that such "accreditation" may have little or no value in non-Catholic contexts. But AI only offers religious master's degrees, and it seems likely that their students intend to use those degrees within the Catholic community.

 

I agree that unaccredited schools can serve niches.

However, I question whether pre-professional education for highly regulated fields (like law) is a niche that they can serve well.

 

Not trying to be offensive, Pug, nor seeking to be arrogant. Each person must choose the academic path that will best serve their objectives/goals. I merely offer a caveat, i.e., that anything less than a legitimately accredited program of study, for most people, in most cases, will end up being problematic, and in some case detrimental. Read and reflect on the research/writing of Bear, Douglas, Levicoff, Baker, Ezell, et al.

 

I completely agree.

 

I agree. I would even go so far as to say that UA is almost never an appropriate option for young people. Young people still have a lot of life ahead and are typically still trying to establish a career. It's best to keep all options maximized at that stage of life. However, there are also people like me. I am 46 (not old, but not young either), very established and secure in a successful career, have already earned RA degrees, have already earned many other industry/career-specific credentials, have already gained experience as an adjunct professor, am already approved to teach the content and administer the exam for a nationally recognized industry-specific credential, etc. If I pursue a UA degree, it will have nothing to do with my career plans. It will be as an outlet...something to do for fun, for the joy of learning, the thrill of accomplishment, something to do as a departure from my career. Hopefully I could even use some of the new skills/knowledge to do a bit of writing, to give back within the context of a care or helping ministry setting, etc.

The two least expensive doctorate options out there, at least in fields of interest, are Tennessee Temple's PhD in Leadership and Johnson University's PhD in Leadership Studies. Costs run from $18k-$24k. I'd feel terrible spending that much cash on a guilty pleasure with no financial ROI. Additionally, while I enjoy the field of leadership a great deal, it's not really what I'm seeking at this point. I'm seeking more of a biblical studies/biblical counseling mix. I am considering SATS (South African Theological Seminary), but I'm not crazy about a dissertation-only program. I really enjoy the coursework as well as the writing. Furthermore, I'm not sure that the SATS PhD in Theology would even allow for a biblical counseling focus. I've reached out to them in inquiry, but have not yet heard back. By way of contrast, LBU offers a PhD in Psychology and Counseling. Columbia Evangelical Seminary offers at least two doctorate level options that would allow the biblical counseling/biblical studies focus (the D.Rel and the D.C.S).

Hopefully it's obvious that I am not seeking a degree mill or a way to beat the system. I'm simply looking for something that fits my needs/wants from an instution I view as capable of delivering such. I freely admit that I fall into a small niche, but it's still a niche that needs to be served. :wink:

 

Personally, I would not go the LBU or CES route, TTU is an option, but Johnson would be the better of the two.

From the SATS website:

Our Doctoral programme is a research-based programme consisting of a dissertation. The Admissions Committee reserves the right to assign further reading or additional theological courses, should it be deemed necessary.

Our Doctoral programme allows you to undertake research on any theological topic. You will conduct your research under the supervision of one or two experts in the chosen field(s) of study. Our doctoral supervisors have been carefully selected to provide you with the high academic standards and the levels of service excellence for which we have become known.

You would be able to incorporate the subject of biblical counseling into a SATS PhD, but it would have to be approached from an academic perspective. SATS has recently purchased a new facility and the school is in the process of relocating over the next few weeks. According to their website, correspondence may be limited over the next few weeks.

Best wishes in your choice!

 

Well said. The degrees offered by AI seem to be geared towards work in cathechesis and lay apostolate within Roman Catholic parishes and dioceses. In this context, approval of the Archbishop of Denver holds way more sway than any form of formal accreditation. Even outside said context, Roman Catholic Church is well-known enough to convince most doubting Thomases (no offense to St. Thomas the Apostle). Come to think of it, having approval of a local hierarch could give the thing some status under Canon Law, and Holy See has an impressive educational system complete with a formal accreditor (Congregation for Catholic Education), so is AI really unaccredited?

Similarly, St. Sophia and Christ the Savior may be unaccredited, but if it qualifies for a canonical Priesthood, who cares?

 

Again, I like TTU and JU, but neither really offers what I'm seeking. Additionally, both are too much for a "hobby degree.". SATS could be an option, but it's not a great one. If I am going to invest years of effort into something, it should be something that evokes passion and excitement. To chase a PhD based on accreditation seems ridiculous if the subject matter doesn't evoke passion from the student. I doubt I'd finish it. I doubt anyone would.

 

You most definitely want to be passionate about the discipline (and the topic of your dissertation) you choose, because you are going to be engaging it with a level of intensity and duration like few things in life. That said, knowing the investment (time/energy/focus/tuition) required for a PhD, and knowing the lifelong nature of the credential (i.e., this will be the highest degree earned and the one typically most focused on as one goes through life), I can't imagine why anyone would want an unaccredited PhD.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would pay a ton of cash for a degree that offered no financial ROI. That money could be better utilized in so many charitible ways. I can't imagine why anyone would pursue doctorate level study without passion for the subject matter and dissertation topic. I can imagine why someone would pursue an unaccredited doctorate if the program met all of his personal and spiritual needs, was affordable, and could be earned from a school that required appropriate rigor.

I think you might be having a really hard time grasping the concept that anything short of a RA, or possibly a NA degree, might actually serve a niche. I don't need others to find value in any of my degrees, RA or otherwise. If i find value in them and feel that I can better serve others because of them, I truly am quite content.

 

Responded within your message.

 

Ram Phd: "I don't disagree, but I believe the "niche" is extremely small, and even smaller at the PhD level."

Interesting. I feel it's the exact opposite. I feel the largest segment of the UA niche would be at the doctorate level. Most PhD candidates are older. This is especially true of distance PhD candidates. As mentioned in an earlier post, the UA option doesn't make much sense for the young who desperately need to keep their future options maximized. Those seeking undergraduate and graduate degrees, for the most part, are still trying to establish their careers and may even have to change careers once or twice. This is not true of the older PhD candidate who may be seeking the degree for personal enrichment, hobby, boredom, etc.

 

I would be willing to concede that theoretically a ua degree could have some utility and I would also be willing to concede that theoretically I could get hit by a meteorite while driving to work tomorrow. Let's face it, it could happen.:yup:

 

It’s my view that there was a time back, prior to the BPPE, when there was a valid amount of utility /authority with a few explicit and then innovative UA / nontraditional universities (i.e., the former state-institutional approval via the California State Council on Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education (CPPVE) regarding privately owned degree-granting institutions (re California Education Code Section 94310)—e.g., Columbia Pacific, California Pacific, WISR, California Coast (founded as California Western University) even prior to Cal Coast DETC accreditation))). Even though, I also consider that the likely legitimate purpose of virtually all unaccredited degrees has faded so very, very much given that there are just so many accredited (RA and even NA) distance degree possibilities that are available … and for some time now, as the handwriting was on the wall.

Note: “State Education Code which stated that the Council (CPPVE) determined and certified that an approved institution meets minimum standards established by the Council for integrity, financial stability, and educational quality, including the offering of bona fide instruction by qualified faculty and the appropriate assessment of students’ achievement prior to, during and at the end of its program.”
re Higher Learning in the U.S. and WISR | Western Institute for Social Research

 

Indeed, and I could be struck by lightning. :mischievous:

 

The odds of getting struck by lightning at some point in your life are 1/12,000. That's actually a pretty high probability rate considering the severity of the potential consequences.

NWS Lightning Safety: Understanding Lightning Introduction

 

A Roman Catholic Priest (Tridentine Rite) said that he graduated from and was ordained by an unaccredited Roman Catholic Seminary called the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter (FSSP). It was also discussed here. Anyway, FSSP is a perfect example of an unaccredited divinity program that may have no academic utility outside of the Roman Catholic Church, but it remains viable within its own denomination, due to its esoteric nature. There are also other religious programs (in both Protestant and Catholic denominations) that offer unaccredited religious degrees (bachelors and masters) that have no academic utility outside of their respective denominations, but they remain viable within their own religious circles. Aspiring candidates should always pursue regionally accredited degrees, whenever possible, but there are religious exceptions. As long as aspiring candidates understand that the utility of their unaccredited religious degree will be primarily relegated to serving the needs of their denomination -- and will not be recognized by regional institutions for transfer credits or teaching purposes -- then no harm is done. They may end up serving their denomination for a lifetime, which is the point. Many states have religious educational exceptions for these and similar reasons.

 

I agree with this as long as the degree holder does not misrepresent their degree.

 

The harm done is the persons who do not know the difference between substantive accredited degrees and everything else. When they hear the term "degree," it projects the perception that the "degree" is a real degree. In the main, in my opinion, unless it is specified every single time in print, on the web, publically stated, etc., that the degree is not a regionally accredited degree, it is a matter of ethics.

 

How would one misrepresent their degree? Are you suggesting that a UA degree of this nature, if listed on a bio or resume, should state:

PhD - XYZ University (Unaccredited, Accepted within the Roman Catholic Church)

That would be crazy.