Update on Knightsbridge University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Gus Sainz, Jan 8, 2005.

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  1. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Although I had previously stated that no response had been forthcoming (which, as previously noted on this forum, in and of itself was extremely revealing), on another channel, the owner of a notorious degree mill attempted to belittle my efforts at uncovering any official information concerning his venture. This degree mill owner had the chutzpah to characterize the reluctance of a governmental agency to provide any information concerning his “flying-under-the-radar” venture as some kind of proof of its legitimacy. As such, I decided to, once again, redouble my efforts to seek an official comment on his “institution.” Today, I finally received an official response to my queries. Here is, without any editing whatsoever, the extent of my communication with the Danish Ministry of Education.

    On January 6, 2005, I wrote to the following message to [email protected] a duplicate of the email I sent on July 22, 2003 (for which I received no reply):
    • Dear Sir or Madam:

      I am looking for information on a Danish enterprise calling itself Knightsbridge University. I cannot seem to find any information on your Web site. Knightsbridge University claims to be registered for corporate purposes in Denmark, and states that they are not part of the formal Danish higher education system. I am unsure what they mean by this, as they offer degrees from the Bachelors level through the Ph.D.. Are they legally authorized to confer such degrees? If so, to what kind of oversight is the university subjected (laws, regulations, etc.)? In other words, is Knightsbridge University a legitimate degree granting institution?

      The contact information listed on their Web site is as follows:


      Knightsbridge University
      Postbox 13
      Skelvej 2
      8981 Spentrup
      Denmark
      Tel:+45 5132 0457
      Fax:+45 8647 9828
      www.knightsbridgeuniversity.com
      [email protected]


      I appreciate any information you can provide. Moreover, I thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

      Sincerely,

      Gus Sainz

    Today I received the following reply:
    • Dear Sir

      With reference to your e-mail of 6 January I can inform you of the
      following:

      * Knightsbridge University is not on our website because it is not a public
      funded university.
      * KU is a fully private and corporate entity/university, and their
      registration is therefore as stated solely for corporate purposes.
      * KU has no formal or legal authority to award degrees as bachelor, Master
      or Ph.D. And their degrees - as they are not officially recognised by the
      Ministry - will not secure admission to other Danish (public) universities.
      * KU is not subjected to the quality assurance mechanisms/systems that
      public universities in Denmark are. The quality of their education is
      therefore unknown to the Ministry.

      I hope this is satisfactory.

      Best regards

      Mads Meinert
      Special Adviser
      Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation
      Tel. +45 7226 5599
    Once again (and it bears repeating), according to the Danish Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation (who oversees higher education in Denmark), Knightsbridge University ”has no formal or legal authority to award degrees as bachelor, Master or Ph.D.” Pay particular attention to the use of the term ”legal” (their words, not mine).

    In other words (with apologies to both Austin Powers and Steve Levicoff) Knightsbridge University is a freakin’ degree mill. Yeah, baby, a mill! :D



    That faintly apologetic voice you hear saying, “It isn’t mine, baby, I swear,” is that of "Dr." Henrik Fyrst Kristensen, international degree mill owner of mystery (who started selling bogus doctorate degrees to others while still in his early twenties). :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2005
  2. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    I'm shocked to discover that Knightsbridge is not a legitimate degree granting institution of higher learning. :rolleyes:
    Jack
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Knightsbridge has always maintained that since it didn't receive public funds, it wasn't subject to the scrutiny of Danish authorities. That much seems to be true. But Knightsbridge has also maintained that they have the right to award degrees since they weren't being controlled by Danish authorities, that this was normal for private universities. That doesn't seem to be so.

    Are there other Danish schools that (a) award degrees, (b) are not scrutinized (like Knightsbridge is not), and (c) are legitimate and recognized as such? If so, what makes them different from Knightsbridge? A common understanding, perhaps? If not, why not?

    This sounds like what Knightsbridge is doing (issuing degrees) is "without legal authority." That would make them a diploma mill in anyone's estimation.
     
  4. In Denmark, a private institution can function without government authorization

    Stop your horses a minute please, glance this information of the education system in Denmark

    “While private institutions can operate without any approval…
    http://eng.uvm.dk/factsheets/dvu.htm?menuid=2520

    “Private institutions can operate without approval, but they must abide by an accreditation procedure set by the Ministry of Education in order to make their students eligible for state study grants.”
    http://www.ciriusonline.dk/Default.asp?ID=657

    “While private institutions can operate without any approval, they must abide by an accreditation procedure to make their students eligible for state study grants.”
    http://www.euroeducation.net/prof/denmarco.htm

    :cool:
     
  5. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: In Denmark, a private institution can function without government authorization

    OK, let’s.

    On that Web site, you must be referring to the second sentence after, “The quality of higher education is assured by ministerial approval of new programmes and institutions, external examiners and an evaluation system.” You know, the one right before the one that reads, “In Denmark the Danish Ministry of Education regulates almost all college sector higher education, whereas the university sector is a part of the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation.
    This Web site explains that "The different types of institutions cooperate in various areas, and credit transfer of studies from the different institutions is possible.” Moroever, they go on to state that, “All institutions use the European credit transfer system, ECTS, facilitating international credit transfer.” However, the email I received from the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation clearly states that degrees from Knightsbridge University, “as they are not officially recognised by the Ministry - will not secure admission to other Danish (public) universities.”

    This Web site claims that “programmes must follow the same national standards.” A quick comparisom of the standards for University level first stage: Bachelorgrad (B.A or B.Sc), University level second stage: Kandidatgrad/Candidatus (cand.+ field of study), Magistergrad (Mag.Art.), University level third stage: PhD grad, and University level fourth stage: Doktorgrad (Dr + field of study), reveals why the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation (which oversees all higher education institutions) does not consider Knightsbridge University to be a legal or legitimate institution.

    No one argues the fact that Denmark allows private institutions to operate without any approval. However, what the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation (which oversees all higher education institutions) has stated unequivocally is that Knightsbridge University “has no formal or legal authority to award degrees.”
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2005
  6. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Somewhere in the great beyond, Hartvig Frisch is laughing his ass off...
     
  7. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I'd be surprised if anyone, with the exception of Henrik and Marianus, is still arguing that Knightsbridge has any kind of academic credibility. I've certainly seen no evidence of it.

    Henrik seems to argue that Denmark has an intentional libertarian policy of allowing private universities to legally operate without any government regulation at all. Then he suggests that Knightsbridge should be accepted as a credible academic institution because it is Danish and Denmark has a respected higher education system. Of course that's self-contradictory, since it seeks to associate KU with high Danish academic standards while simultaneously arguing that those standards don't apply to KU. So that argument can be dismissed as worthless.

    Turning away from KU and directing our attention to the Danish system itself, we can still ask about the precise status of private universities in Denmark.

    Is it legal to offer degrees based only on a corporate registration? Or must a would-be Danish university receive government authorization to grant degrees? If government degree-granting approval is required, then is there any provision under Danish law that permits private universities to acquire that approval?

    I get the distinct impression that Denmark has never had a private university in its history and that no law exists that addresses them. So the whole thing is ambiguous. On one hand we have Henrik, arguing that anything that isn't expressly forbidden is permitted, so in Denmark anything goes. On the other hand, we could argue that private universities simply aren't legal in Denmark.

    Mr. Meinert's reply to Gus seemed artfully worded to dodge all that.

    While none of this has any bearing at all on Knightsbridge's academic creibility and on whether or not it is a degree-mill, it does address whether or not it is operating legally. More broadly, it addresses whether or not Denmark stands wide open as a potential degree-mill haven.

    If no provision exists in Danish law to regulate private universities, and if it is legal to do anything one wants in that country so long as government funds aren't involved, then Denmark's system is less competent than those in third-world places like Pakistan.

    Since we know that many degree-mill operators read Degreeinfo regularly, I fully expect to see a number of phony internet "universities" appearing soon with Danish addresses, all wrapping themselves in first-world European academic tradition and claiming all kinds of credibility by association.

    So bottom line, if it is illegal to operate degree mills in Denmark, then the Danish authorities need to state that fact clearly and unambiguously. If operating degree-mills is currently legal in Denmark, then Danish legislators need to quickly address that gap in their laws, by enacting provisions to regulate private universities and to ensure their standards.
     
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    IMHO, here's the damning facts on KU.

    - One man operation and that one man apparently has no valid advanced (any?) degree nor administrative experience in a real school.

    - Not legal in its jurisdiction of operation.

    - It has bounced around from one jurisdiction to another in the past.

    - The detailed story given by Neil Hayes on how his Ph.D. was bestowed by KU indicated an amateurish, unprofessional, unacademic, undisciplined, and very millish policy.

    - Henrik was very evasive regarding details of KU practices and got insulting and belligerent when major holes in the KU facade were exposed.

    My conclusion is that KU is a degree mill. Of course I had the same conclusion even before the damning statement by Danish authorities that KU was not legal. Perhaps it's time to bounce KU to a different jurisdiction, again? How about Liberia? Oops they already passed through Liberia.
     
  9. Regarding Honorary Doctorate Degree From Knightsbridge University!

    I have been doing research into Honorary Doctorates for several months. And I had the opportunity to inquire of Knightsbridge University. I have received received four emails from Henrik and I will post two of them here for your review. Let me know what you think. This has got to the most expensive honorary degree from an unaccredited institution I have ever seen.
    ____________________________________________________

    Dear Reverend Hill,

    The sort of contribution that was usually associted with honoris causa awards would have been deemed to be at doctorial level, and undertaken outside the realm of an institution, i.e. not for the purposes of degree attainment. Prolonged or very significant in terms of impact publishing, for example, or other such outstanding performance. This is now a rarity, and those who find themselves in that league usually are commercially aware. This is, really, a case of the demise of the 'gentleman scholar', the sort of person who, like Darwin, simply threw a lot of money and a good deal of foolhardiness into venturing forth into the unknown, amassing data and knowledge, and later publishing or otherwise making available these findings.

    To be blunt, I have only ever come across 3 such people where it was reasonable for the University to initiate the award proceedings. Every other case is a quid pro quo arrangement.

    The chances, therefore, of someone new being deemed to fall into this category are slim, and continually diminishing, as specialisation becomes ever more prevalent. People nowadays do not contribute widely to a field, but become immersed in a very narrow sliver of a field. And usually in an institutional setting.

    Thank you very much for your season's greetings, returned in kind, I hope you and yours will have a Blessed Christmas.


    Best regards,


    Henrik Fyrst Kristensen
    ____________________________________________________
    Dear Reverend Hill,

    Thank you for your swift response.

    The 'how much' question used to be quite a delicate issue, until it was decided that a bottom threshold had to be established, that of £10,000 or other services of a nature commensurate with this. This, for some, is a mere drop in the ocean, and for others entirely unrealistic. Indeed, as is the case with our regular programmes.

    Personally, I would usually recommend against pursuing an honorary doctorate for anything other than the associated pleasure of it. If the idea is to somehow 'flash it about' as a form of 'badge' or statement of attainment, that purpose might be pursued in better ways. Donating in name to a worthy local cause should achieve this very well. Part of the 'deal' where honorary doctorates of this nature is concerned is often that the intended award recipient is interested in assisting the University in question directly, while doing him- or herself a good turn.

    The honoris causa award is not an option that we particularly throw any light upon. I know some places make rather staggeringly good business out of this option, and in this we can count a diverse range of externally validated institutions, so there is ample precedence for making this an avenue to pursue. It just is not an avenue we wish to race down full speed, even if no doubt the associated income to be derived could be substantial, indeed.

    I hope this is of assistance, and look forward to hearing from you again at your leisure.


    Best regards,


    Henrik Fyrst Kristensen
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    So an honorary doctorate can be purchased from Knightsbridge for 10K pounds? Not Danish Kroners?

    Let's see, purchasing an honorary doctorate from an unaccredited school with no degree-granting recognition....hmmmm. Doesn't that make it like John Bear's old "L.I.A.R."? Except that his was tongue-in-cheek and only cost $US25.

    Since Knightsbridge has no academic recognition, and since it operates with no legal oversight, wouldn't it be simpler--and equally meaningful--to grant yourself a degree and print it up? And what does that say about Knightsbridge? :rolleyes:
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Bill makes good points all, but this one just slays me. What we know about Dr. Hayes' two "doctorates" we know from Hayes. That it so funny! He had a vested interest in telling the best story possible, and the story he came up with thoroughly described the issuance of a fake degree by a diploma mill! You don't have to know a thing about Knightsbridge to come to that conclusion. Dump on top of that the other points (Knightsbridge's degree mill roots, Fryst's lack of legitimate credentials, awarding a Ph.D. to Hayes for writing a book, etc.) and you have one funny story. But I'd bet Fryst is making some loot off of it all.:rolleyes:
     
  12. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    A meaningless scrap of paper. Perhaps useful for starting a fire in the old woodstove on some cold Winters night.
    Jack
     
  13. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: Regarding Honorary Doctorate Degree From Knightsbridge University!

    As am fluent in Henrikian, please allow me to translate this.

    __________________________________________________


    • Dear Reverend Hill,

      The sort of contribution that was usually associted with honoris causa awards would have been deemed to be at doctorial level, and undertaken outside the realm of an institution, i.e. not for the purposes of degree attainment.
    Honorary degrees are bogus.
    • Prolonged or very significant in terms of impact publishing, for example, or other such outstanding performance.
    Well, not all are bogus; a select few (like the one we are going to sell to you) are granted for "legitimate" achievement (wink wink).
    • This is now a rarity, and those who find themselves in that league usually are commercially aware.
    Even if you are meritorious of an honorary doctorate, I wouldn’t consider granting you one without sufficient remuneration. You are "commercially aware," aren't you, Reverend Hill?
    • This is, really, a case of the demise of the 'gentleman scholar', the sort of person who, like Darwin, simply threw a lot of money and a good deal of foolhardiness into venturing forth into the unknown, amassing data and knowledge, and later publishing or otherwise making available these findings.
    I really have no clue as to what I am saying here, but it sounds erudite and I kinda like the reference to the whole survival of the fittest, big-fishie-eating-the-little-fishie thing. Don't forget, however, that I am the big fishie.
    • To be blunt, I have only ever come across 3 such people where it was reasonable for the University to initiate the award proceedings.
    Please understand, as the owner and Vice-Chancellor of Knightsbridge University, I really don’t get much of a chance to interact with intellectually or academically inclined individuals; however, familial pressures have forced me to offer honorary degrees to mom, dad, and a distant aunt.
    • Every other case is a quid pro quo arrangement.
    But that’s where I drew the line; everyone else has to fork over the big bucks!
    • The chances, therefore, of someone new being deemed to fall into this category are slim, and continually diminishing, as specialisation becomes ever more prevalent. People nowadays do not contribute widely to a field, but become immersed in a very narrow sliver of a field. And usually in an institutional setting.
    I really hope you are buying into this whole exclusivity bullshit, because I’m getting ready to really ream you for some serious dough.
    • Thank you very much for your season's greetings, returned in kind, I hope you and yours will have a Blessed Christmas.
    And, as you can see, and is quite characteristic of the best con artists throughout history, I can be quite charming when I want to (usually when I have a financial interest in doing so).


    • Best regards,


      Henrik Fyrst Kristensen
    I won’t make you call me “doctor,” so I won’t have to explain how and from where I got my degree.

    __________________________________________________



    • Dear Reverend Hill,

      Thank you for your swift response.
    Time is money, friend; let’s cut to the chase (after all, everyone knows that marks get cold fast).
    • The 'how much' question used to be quite a delicate issue, until it was decided that a bottom threshold had to be established, that of £10,000 or other services of a nature commensurate with this.
    By “delicate,” of course, I mean that I don’t want this information widely publicized. It is bad enough that Knightsbridge is widely regarded as a degree mill, but the outright selling of degrees is something, needless to say, we’d rather keep under wraps. We still remember the brouhaha that ensued (and the subsequent loss of revenues) when it came to light that we sold medical degrees. Also, I truly hope that requiring payment in pounds is somehow fooling you into believing (just like a prominent military expert was) that we are a legitimate British institution.
    • This, for some, is a mere drop in the ocean, and for others entirely unrealistic. Indeed, as is the case with our regular programmes.
    Listen, bud, you either got the dough or you don’t; I don’t want you wasting my time.
    • Personally, I would usually recommend against pursuing an honorary doctorate for anything other than the associated pleasure of it. If the idea is to somehow 'flash it about' as a form of 'badge' or statement of attainment, that purpose might be pursued in better ways. Donating in name to a worthy local cause should achieve this very well.
    Trust me; I don’t really want your money. No, really, I don't want it. You’re gonna have to twist my arm to get me to take it; I don’t accept money from just any mark, I mean, stooge, I mean “gentleman scholar.” You're "special."
    • Part of the 'deal' where honorary doctorates of this nature is concerned is often that the intended award recipient is interested in assisting the University in question directly, while doing him- or herself a good turn.
    Here’s the "deal;" I thoroughly expect you, like practically everyone else that purchased our bogus degrees, to brazenly shill for Knightsbridge University. Trust me; it's actually in your best interest to do so.
    • The honoris causa award is not an option that we particularly throw any light upon.
    You do know what cockroaches do when you shine the light on them, don’t you?
    • I know some places make rather staggeringly good business out of this option, and in this we can count a diverse range of externally validated institutions, so there is ample precedence for making this an avenue to pursue.
    This kind of thing is legitimate, extremely profitable, and above all, completely ethical, but for some strange reason, we don’t want anyone to know. You do want to be "special," right?
    • It just is not an avenue we wish to race down full speed, even if no doubt the associated income to be derived could be substantial, indeed.
    We will, of course, for the above mentioned fee, make an exception in your case. This will ensure your high degree of "specialocity."
    • I hope this is of assistance, and look forward to hearing from you again at your leisure.
    I hope this was a successful sales pitch.


    • Best regards,


      Henrik Fyrst Kristensen
    Now, where’s my money, man?


    :D :D :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2005
  14. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I think that Gus is a mind reader!
     
  16. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You know, I just asked a couple of questions to clarify what I thought I'd read; specifically, whether or not I was reading an offer from Fyrst to sell an honorary (for cause) degree. (How an honorary degree can be awarded "for cause" and be sold "for cash" is yet another inconsistency with Knightsbridge. Or perhaps not.) But Gus, hoo boy. He parsed it perfectly.

    The James Boys on Degreeinfo DL are swiftly dismissing this as Henrik's way of telling Ray to buzz off. I guess claiming it was all a lie by Ray wouldn't suffice for them. Oh, but they are shooting the messenger by complaining that Ray busted some unsaid form of confidentiality by publishing the e-mail. I generally keep e-mail private, but something this egregious and relevant is certainly worthy of an exception. Or maybe not. A degree mill operator quoted offering to sell a degree shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

    Thanks to Gus and Ray.
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    One other thing. I just realized that the honorary doctorate we're talking about is a Ph.D.! Can you believe it? Legitimate schools do not award this particular doctorate as honorary, for obvious reasons. Bear tells the story in his guides about Gonzaga awarding an honorary Ph.D. to Bing Crosby, who made great fun with it on his radio show. This ended the practice; schools now tend to award degrees with titles that are not to be confused with earned degrees. There are a few exceptions here and there, but the Ph.D. isn't one of them.

    Fyrst was selling a Ph.D. Wow.:rolleyes:
     
  19. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Posted by Henrik on DI DL:
     
  20. MichaelR

    MichaelR Member

    that quote makes no sense to me. Since I don't read Jame's board I will never know what is going on.
     

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