UOP's Perception!

UoP and the KW Degree

Well steve is certainly correct concerning my profile. However it has no relationship with with my status at University of Phoenix. I have been with the Philadelphia campus for little over 2 1/2 years. My KW graduation date was May 02. I was hired back then on the basis of my M.Eng from Lehigh University. The fact is that UoP does not recognize any non-RA degree for hiring purposes. If you see someone with such a credential on the faculty, you can be assured that they are on faculty based upon thier RA credential. The official policy for people such as myself is that we cannot represent ourselves to our students with the title Doctor, we cannot list the degree in our UoP bio, and we cannot attend graduation ceremonies wearing the Doctoral regalia.

The local campus is aware of my KW degree and I am still qualified to facilitate 21 courses with them.

BTW, Widener also has an excellent Engineering School.

Dick,

A fellow who like associating with elitist as well as everybody else.

 

Re: UoP and the KW Degree

It has been proffered on this board that when one sees a faculty member at an RA school with a doctorate from an unaccredited university, that person is in place due to his/her master's and/or experience, not the doctorate. Dick offers us one data point in that argument. There have been many others, but none that I can remember that were 1st person and thoroughly demonstrated.

Others who try to support the value of earning an unaccredited degree point to the same situations and make the opposite claim, saying that the existence of someone on faculty at an RA school while listing an unaccredited doctorate (which Dick says UoP doesn't allow, btw) is somehow evidence of the degree's value and acceptance. But we've yet to see even one situation where someone fills a position at an RA institution where the doctorate is required and that requirement has been filled with a doctorate from an unaccredited school. (I do know of at least one, however, at a nontraditional university. But I haven't seen such a case at a B&M school.)

 

Academic Value of the Unaccredited Doctorate

I agree with Rich's points. I have been doing adjunct work for the past 10 years and I have never encountered anyone who ever got the teaching position based upon an unaccredited degree at any level. I can't say the same for any DETC accredited school since I have no associations with such schools. I have sat on faculty assessment committees with U of P and we have not had any applicants with such a credential offered. Our biggest problem has been the work experience requirements.

My experience has been that graduates of unaccredited schools are usually disappointed when they find out their degrees are not acceptable for professional licensure as well as academic transfer credit or teaching positions.

Dick

 

This thread has been a bit amusing to me--it seems as though some people are trying to argue which is better, adjunct vs. full time professors.

The real answer? It doesn't matter what title the person teaching has, it only matters how s/he teaches the class, whether or not they actually manage to teach something to the students.

If it's a professor who is mainly there for research purposes, and has no interest in teaching his/her classes, then more than likely, s/he isn't a very good teacher. I've had numerous teachers like this, where his/her coming to my class was an incovenience to their research/book writing.

If it's a professor who is there for research, but enjoys teaching people, stays up to date on current topics in their field, keeps the class involved, and actually teaches something, that's great. I had numerous experiences like this in college as well.

If it's an adjunct who has some great, valuable experiences to share with students, and does so in a way that they are able to stay involved in the class and learn something, then they too are good teachers. I had many of these in college as well.

And there are surely adjunct teachers at many universities who aren't any good as well, and I'm sure I had a few of them too--but the nice thing is, if an adjunct is a poor teacher, they SHOULD be canned within a semester or three...not that they always are, but...

Toonces

 

Re: UoP and the KW Degree

Hi, Richard. I admire your ability to keep your cool while Steve is trying to bait you.

That seems like a reasonable policy to me.

In fact if it errors, it errors on the side of over-strictness. That's because a few non-RA schools are probably very good in their particular fields.

 

Re: Re: UoP and the KW Degree

I concur with Bill - Dick has handled my comments quite smoothly. And no doubt, his credential from Lehigh U. is quite solid.

(By the way, John is correct - I did mean Widen[/i]er University. Which proves, once again, that those of us who are brilliant do make occasional typos. Or as Dan Quayle would say, typoes.)

Anyway, not to take this thread off topic, I wonder if he would comment on why he chose Kennedy-Western for this doctorate, especially in light of his otherwise excellent credentials (both his master's degree and his professional certifications). Might be enlightening to hear a first-person rationale. In light of that, I promise not to bait him further. I mean, the guy lives only 15 minutes from me.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Assumptions (?)

Steve, what are we going to do with you? You will have fewer of these kind of attacks if you stop typing with one hand, while your other hand is... (deleted to spare Russell aggravation).

Here's one that might be of interest to a gay fundie:

Erwin Haeberle. Ph.D. American Literature, U. of Heidleberg. Ed. D. Sexology, Institute for Advanced Study in Human Sexuality. (For those who don't know, that's a CA-approved but not-RA school in San Francisco that offers short-residency doctoral degrees. It actually has a pretty good reputation in some circles.)

OK, after this education, Haeberle went on to make his career as an internationally noted sexologist, not as a literary scholar. He has been a research associate at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana U., and taught at schools including San Francisco State, U. Kiel and the U. Geneva. He was director of information and documentation at the AIDS center, German Federal Health Office, Berlin and is currently director of the Magnus Hirschfeld Archive for Sexology at Humboldt University in Berlin. He was the keynote speaker at the 14th World Congress of Sexology in Hong Kong, 1999. (And he still advises DL doctoral students at IASHS.)

So what's up with that. Steve?

 

I must admit I really get tired of some of this crap!!! It appears that various members of this group assume that their opinion sets the standard of what is an acceptable university. Their bias and elitism is simply unreasonable, more precisely a load of crap!

First, let's deal with the U of Px. It is regionally accredited and most employers consider it reasonable for advancement in their comnpanies. Secondly, many universities accept individuals with U of Px degrees for admission to advanced degrees.

Third, I have encouraged and supported a number of my own managers to puruse degrees in organizational leadership from U of Px. The material they are presented is meaningful. The information they learn can be used on the job. The people that teach the courses have day-to-day work experience that help in the teaching of their courses. The degrees and courses are meaningufl and usable. Are these Harvard courses? NO! However, they are as valuable as most of the course offered by the small state colleges and small private colleges in the area. The courses are regionally accredited, transferrable and mostly meaningful. My staff learn. advance and develop while participating in the courses. The master's degree makes a difference and helps improve their skills. I appreciate the fact that the adjunct instructors have not had their heads hidden in academia and have had real ife experience that is meaningful and can be shared with their students.

Fourth, I am not sure about adjunct instructors being lesser instructors. Research universities are often focused on research...not teaching! Adjunct instructors have often worked in the field and have meaningful insights to offer. Now for my own bias...I have taught as an adjunct. I have a tradtional doctorate from Oklahoma State. I have taught at East Central University, Oklahoma University, Langston University and have guest lectured ast Western Oregon Univeristy, Western Washington University, The University Of Idaho, and have taught workshops across North America. However, I am the state administrator in vocational rehabilitation. I am the person who will hire most of the graduates in rehabilitation in my state. I am board certified in two fields and have chaired the commission that certifies many of the people who practice in vocational rehabilitation. I am published. I have written many of the exam quesrtions required for the national examination. As an Adjunct, I offer something meaningful, even powerful to the classroom. I offer academic experience, research experience, a national reputation, and a quality professional background in what I teach. However, I am just an adjunct! Interestingly, students lilke my classes and clamor to get in my classes. Why? I am in a position to hire and I am a good teacher who offers something meaningful in the field they are pursuing. My experience with U of PX so far is similar. Quality adjuncts teach who have meaningful expereince that adds to the classroom experience. No it is not Harvard, but it is valuable and they will get promoted.

I think many of the members of this forum forget that pursuing a degree may have a practical end result and that in most places Harvard degrees are not required. It turns out that RA degrees are what is actually needed by most employers and that the talent of the employee is what makes the difference.

What a load of crap to keep diminishing the school because it is not what you want or like. It meets the needs of many people, including employers. Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Assumptions (?)

Indeed, Bill. Gratitude is rendered.

 

I happen to share Dr. O'Brien's OPINION regarding what should and should not be considered acceptable. I feel that it is recognized accreditation that determines what is and is not a recognized university in this country (U.S.).

That said, his argument is rather reminiscent of those posed by folks who would defend unaccredited schools, often decrying the perceived biases and snobbery of degreeinfo denizens who point to accreditation! So, some people turn up their noses at state-approved schools, others do so regarding UoP or other schools they consider inferior. Oh, well.

To nearly quote Bear, "One person's diploma mill is another's alternative university."

(NB: The article that was used to start this thread is a deadhead. The author wanted to use a distance learning school as an example, and so chose what is likely the most famous one around, Phoenix. No big deal.)

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Assumptions (?)

Wait now, Steve. Kennedy-Western requires 36 days of residency for the Ph.D. Isn't this one more day than Union's correspondence doctorate?

 

UOP Perception

I have been following this thread with mixed emotions. I am presently attending the University of Phoenix Online in pursuit of a Masters Degree in Organizational Management. I am in my fifth class and my educatoinal experience has been great. It is challenging and the instructors are well qualified. Furthermore, the material is relevant and I can readily use the material at my work.


By the readings of this thread, some members of this forum apparently think that UOP is nothing more than a diploma mill and a degree from them is not worth the paper it is printed on.
Other members have defended it.

I would like to provide my two cents worth of opinion and some background to think about.

I completed a twenty six year career in the Navy as a Lieutenant Commander (0-4) in the Limited Duty Officer field of Administration. Prior to my selection as a commissioned officer in the Navy, I served as a Chief Personnelman (E-7). While on active duty in the Navy, I completed a Bachelors Degree during off duty hours with the University of Maryland- University College via classroom method. From what I have read in these forums, some people view the University of Maryland - University College with the same contempt as the UOP.

Let me address the University of Phoenix first. I agree it is not an Ivy League University. However, it does serve the purpose of providing an education that will allow people to gain employment as well as increase upward mobility opportunities both in the Military, the Federal Government, and private industry.

I presently work for the Federal Government. My prior employer, Booz, Allen and Hamilton, a rather large management consulting company, accepts a degree from UOP for employment, various projects, and upward mobility. BAH provided tuition assistance as well as the Federal Government if otherwise eligible for attendance at UOP> Moreover, the Military provides tuition assistance and the GI Bill for attendance to the UOP.

The University of Maryland - University College also provides a great opportunity for military members and their families to obtain an education around the world.

Both UOP and UMUC hire adjunct professors. These professors have relevant experience that assists them in providing a relevant education to working adults.

Bottom line. While both these Universities are not traditional, they do serve a purpose for working adults that want and need to earn a degree.

 

Re: UOP Perception

Thanks for joining the discussion, Mustang. (Good handle, too, given your background!) It's nice to get people's first-hand account of any of the schools discussed on this board. Thank you for yours.

I don't think anyone here feels that UoP is really a degree mill. My only complaint is their aggressive advertising - but I don't really care that much. I just wouldn't attend because I would not like to be associated with the school as it's being portrayed in its own advertisements. But it's certainly not a degree mill.

Welcome to the board!

 

I am thinking to myself, "Who cares how they market?" All colleges market in one way or another, why does it matter that UoP is more aggressive than others? Has the snobbery led to a disdain for instituitons that actually want students to attend....so they market aggressively? Do we really think that the quality of the education suffers because of their marketing? Are we that stupid? Do we not that think that they could have paid all of the adjuncts and still afforded to deliver quality programs with the $1billion in revenue they earned last year? Do we really think that they do not provide value because of the price/quality ratio? Isn't this a land of capitalism? Doesn't their 150,000+ student body speak for their value? If you don't Like UoP....fine say it. But, condemn them over market strategy! That's just dumb!

 

In my state, a graduate from UOP (in the respective field) qualifies to sit the CPA exam and the nursing exam. This is demonstrated utility. I think everyone who is looking down on this school should think a minute before stepping out onto that very slippery slope. I believe you can figure out the rest of my post without my help. Thanks.

Tony

 

Re: Re: UOP Perception

Steve,

Thanks. We are neighbors. I live in Springfield, Virginia.

Fred

 

Re: Re: Re: UOP Perception

And I, a fellow retired "mustang" of the Air Force variety, live right around the corner in Burke.

 

Puh-leeze . . .

You University of Phoenix people are being far too sensitive.

No one has ever called UoP a degree mill. What some of us have aid is that it is a mediocre, profit-making cookie-cutter school that hires adjuncts so they don't have to pay full-time salaries and benefits to their faculty. Thus, they end up with lots of faculty without significant teaching experience - and corporate experience does not equal teaching experience.

Mediocre and focused on its own marketing, yes. But a degree mill? Of course not.

Of course, I would never enroll there. It's beneath me. Get over it.

 

Steve,

I am relatively new to this forum and enjoy reading the comments.

As I mentioned before, I am pursuing a Masters Degree with UOP. But, I don't have any great loyalty to UOP because of this.

However, my learning experiences with UOP have been just as good as classroom experiences.

What other On-line University would you personally recommend for an working adult that is seeking a graduate degree? And why would you recommend them over UOP?

Fred

 

For me, it's not that they're aggressive in their marketing, it's the way that they market.

For me, one major reason I want graduate degrees is to improve my chances in the job market. If I believe that a hiring manager may be "turned off" by the school I've attended, then I'd rather find a different school. It's doesn't speak to the quality or caliber of the teaching staff or education, just to the school's marketing style. (Although Levicoff has a different opinion.) UoP's heavy marketing emphasis on being a DL school where someone can earn a degree quickly doesn't have the word "quality" written all over it. (I include Strayer University in that list, too.)

There are a lot of personal reasons why people choose a college. For some, paying for books is an unwanted expense (for them, there's Touro), for others, they want to have textbooks to refer back to for years to come. Some people need asynchronous learning because they can't be at their computer at the same time every week, for others, that's not a problem. And there are many, many more reasons that go into choosing the right school to attend.

This is one reason it's so hard to answer some new people's questions that go like, "Should I go to School X?" Because the answer is always, "It depends."