Universidad del Claustro Gómez

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Mac Juli, May 22, 2020.

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  1. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Active Member

    Hello!


    We have pointed out in a different thread that low-cost MBAs, bought from Groupon, can indeed have a certain value. A look on the searching portal emagister, however, showed that even the price of this MBA can be topped. The institution which offers these courses is named "Universidad del Claustro Gómez".

    Well.

    Any thoughts about it? I do not think they will be of any use, but maybe I am wrong.


    Best regards,
    Mac Juli
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Found it - It calls itself an education centre - in Spanish - not a University and is located in Panama. To be accredited-or-equivalent in Panama, you place your school under the eye of the University of Panama - you teach and run things according to their standards. I'm sure this place hasn't. And it doesn't need to. Private schools in Panama can operate on a business license, legally awarding degrees which have no standing. I'm guessing that's what's happening here.

    They have 9 different MBA specializations and they're mostly 95 euros - just over $100 US.

    I don't see an English page, but I'm OK with Spanish. Waste of time. Don't get me started.
     
    Mac Juli likes this.
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Another bad sign is their blurb re: Hague Convention Apostilles. Many mills offer these and you supposedly append one to your bad degree and that makes it all good. Of course, it doesn't. The apostille means simply that the document attached is genuine - not a forgery. No attestation as to quality, legitimacy. etc.

    Often, apostilles are bought by fake-degree hunters to try and fool prospective employers. Not a good strategy.
     
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Not in all countries. In the UK, you cannot get an apostille of a fake UK degree, it is actually checked that is a real degree. In Europe, there are two apostilles in most countries, one is for private documents and other for degrees, the one for degrees need to pass the test of being a recognized school.

    In some countries, one can find work with an apostille of a degree as it is assumed that the school is legit.

    I agree that in the US the apostille means nothing as you might be getting an apostille of the Universal Life Church and it will be granted because the place exists and the degree can be authenticated as being issued by UlC but it is not a real degree.

    The confusion is because in most countries the title "University" is restricted but not in the US and other countries.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The key here is that it is not an University but a center of studies. https://www.claustrogomez.net/

    The school plays with the law. In Most Latin American countries, the degree titles are "Licenciatura" "Maestria" "Doctorado" but not the title "Master". So anyone can issue a Master degree in Panama because it is not regulated.

    So a Master of Business in Panama is really just a Master Certificate.

    The learning is legit but you are not getting a diploma from a school that is officially recognized by the Panama Government.

    Actually 100 USD is very high for a MAster certificate from a private institute. I have seen Masters propio certificates in Spain for 20 Euros.

    Also, bear in mind that even Master propio issued by real schools like Universidad Isabel I, are not considered official. However, because the issuing institution is recognized, many places recognize it as a Masters degree but it is not.

    Very confusing, the idea of a Master propio and Master official is indeed bothersome but this is how they can bring down the cost to few hundred. At the end of the day, there is little cost in offering a program that just needs a moodle site and automated grading with multiple choice questions and a printer to print diplomas.
     
    Mac Juli likes this.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed. In Panama, it is also very easy and cheap to get a business license that allows you to open up a private University. Then you can legally confer degrees of no standing as you see fit. To have mainstream standing, the school must place itself under the eye of the University of Panama and teach, etc. as that school directs and supervises. No self-respecting crook would do that! That's the Panamanian equivalent of Accreditation! Panama is one of the prime remaining Bonanzas / Klondikes for mill operators.

    There are some RA (and NA) distance schools in the US that this might apply to - some quite large and expensive, too. The major expense for the school is likely Accreditation. For the school, it's a key to the goldmine. For students, a key to the shaft!
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Glad they check. I'm sure they check because issuing a fake degree in UK is a dicey proposition to begin with. You can go to gaol-jail-clink or whatever for issuing an unauthorized British degree, Not so in some other Hague-Convention countries, where it is very easy to operate a "paper" university and legally flog substandard or zero-standing degrees. The schools exist and issue degrees. Accordingly, apostilles can be issued.

    What an apostille is actually for: It ALWAYS certifies that a document is genuine - issued by the person/body named on the document. Nothing more. E.G. That your Master's from Spurious U. was actually issued by Spurious U. Glad the UK checksfor ..um, spuriosity. Elsewhere, there is no need to steal the seals etc. and grind out some fake apostilles - unless you made up a fictitious school this morning and can't prove its existence. All that's needed - it has to exist - and have issued the degree attached.

    Crooks rely on people reading meanings into the Apostille that simply aren't there like accreditation, standards, reputation etc.
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    "It (the school) doesn't need to be real. It just has to exist! :) Un-named Axact exec - or Jean-Paul Sartre? My money's on Axact.
     
  9. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Active Member

    Hello!


    Don't forget one thing: an university really (!) does not need to be "real" in the sense of the word - as it does not have to be a "res" (="thing" in latin). So, well...


    Best regards,
    Mac Juli
     
    Johann likes this.
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It has its use. Its main purpose is to give credibility to the document. You get a nice looking document full of stamps and official government seals.
    The average person in this forum is educated enough to differentiate between a real and a not recognized University but in the real world, most people will not differentiate between Claustro Gomez Institute and another no name real Panamanian University in countries outside Panama.
    As the target of these degrees is International, the prospect student might feel that $100 bucks is worth the investment. let's say I am immigrant of Salvador in Canada and have no education but need a job. The MBA from Claustro Gomez or a real Panamanian University will be the same for practical purposes, both degrees are not going to give me an executive position in Canada but good enough for a placement agency to call me for an admin assistant position.
    I have seen in Canada people with non recognized degrees working in Canada in jobs that do not require a University degree.



    You get what you pay for. Claustro Gomez is giving you a piece of paper that can fill a gap in a CV and it is a legal entity entitled to grant these qualifications.
     
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree, the reality is that the knowledge you get from Claustro Gomez or a low profile online American school might be the same. Both might be using canned courses and exams from publishers programmed in moodle.

    The main difference is that faculty at Claustro Gomez might teach with faculty with high school diplomas while faculty at online American schools need at least a Masters degree from a recognized school. This last one is expensive because you need to pay at least 2K to a faculty member to run a class while the second one might be a high school kid good at moodle just running the courses bought from a publisher. Also, accreditation agencies require the faculty member to be specialized in one field (e.g. Finance) so one faculty member cannot teach all the classes while at Claustro Gomez the same kid is running all the classes for its MBA. The final result is the same but accreditation requires you to have the people with real Masters degree.
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    We live in a society that is about money and profit. Even many real Universities with official recognition are virtual with no full time faculty, no research scope, run with canned purchased courses, taught by Faculty that doesnt do research and many times graduated with degrees from similar low profile online universities etc.

    The concept of University has changed, many times is just about making a profit so the idea is to minimize cost and optimize profits.

    I particularly have no problems with schools like Claustro Gomez. These people are doing the same as many other schools just with low investment but also low returns but the value to society is about the same in terms of learning.
     
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    That's precisely why I said what I said. It has to exist, but it doesn't have to be real. I spotted the existentialists in the crowd....

    Being and Nothingness ...
     
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  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    If a student plows through courses at a school like Claustro Gomez or a low-standard US school and has a decent learning outcome, you can bet he/she is a smart cookie, because they've had exactly zero help from their school. Tougher to fight your way onto the employment books from ol' Claustro, though ...
     
  15. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Active Member

    In German, there is an interesting word for "real": "wirklich". The root word is "Wirkung", translated: "effect". So, we could as well say the university is "wirklich", but not real.
     
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks - wirklich. I knew the word but not the root. Heute habe ich etwas gelernt, :):)
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I spent quite a while with the Claustro Gomez site last night. Two things:

    1. The school is very up-front about the nature and potential limitations of its degrees. That's good, as I see it. Possibly required, I'm not sure.
    2. They offer a large number of career-school-looking "tecnico" programs as well- the sort that might net you an Associate degree in the US or likely a private school diploma in Canada. Interesting, One thing for sure. Even if you have a shaky start, if you manage to complete a program at this school with half-decent marks, it should mean your on-the-job Spanish skills will be up to snuff, if nothing else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Anybody know anything about the examination process at Claustro or the usual process at similar schools? Are they online? Proctored - by webcam, maybe? Multiple guess? Essay? Combo?
     
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I have seen people from overseas with recognized degrees and professional credentials from home doing jobs requiring no degree. e.g. doctor / cab driver, engineer / security guard etc. Sometimes they break down the barriers, sometimes not. Less resilience with age, possibly. It's (made) tough for them - possibly by the professional associations, to protect the jobs of Canadian members. Just my theory.

    Success story: African-trained doctor (lady) qualifies and practises in Finland. Later, she comes to Canada - Manitoba. "They" won't even tell her where to write qualifying exam. Nice people - NOT! She finds out anyway, writes and qualifies. No more problem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It is sad but also the smart ones can use the system to their advantage. As most employers will not recognize foreign qualifications from under developed nations, you can get the $100 MBA and finish it in 6 months and then the employer might hire you as admin assistant, a position that only requires a CC degree but the employer thinks that is getting a person with a 6 year education when in reality was a high school graduate with 6 month online training. As the employer is not willing to recognize the foreign Panama MBA, the person can use the non recognized degree and actually save time as the local CC degree would require 3 years of study.

    I know a person with a non recognized degree from Lebanon that works as admin assistant. She always puts in her CV that has bachelors degree and not a single person has asked for equivalency or any other official document. She can do the job of answering phones and writing memos, 6 month training is all you need for this but the degree gives the perception that is over qualified but she is not.

    All I am saying is that the qualification might have some value for some. It is $100 dlls, the same money you spend buying some drinks and food at an outing so you might as well invest it in yourself if you have no degree at all. It cannot hurt, depending on your background, if the holder is an immigrant or child of an immigrant from an underdeveloped nation, it might not raise any eye brows, if your name is "George Williams" and white boy from Alabama, it is not going to look credible in your CV.
     
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