Unaccredited PhD Poll

BillDayson, what a great post!

Brian, I do understand what you are saying but the criticism or alienation that you observe isn't necessarily intended as opinionated snobbery but rather genuine concern that you may be making a mistake by choosing a non-RA school. You may call people snobbish, stubborn, or even stupid for not recognizing your efforts at such a school but the bottom line remains that your "efforts will NOT receive the recognition that they deserve".

Susanna

 

True.

However, I have not called anyone, or used the words - "snobbish or stupid" or even implied such.

When I say stubborn, I refer to a pattern of rigid and forced behavior and really nothing more.

 

... let me rephrase that then... the flow of this thread may have implied that you may call or may agree with someone who may call such behavior snobbish, stubborn, or stupid. How is that?

Good luck at CPU!

Susanna

 

Haha!! Surely you jest!

If I was going with the flow I would be out robbing a bank looking for ca$h for an RA $chool, unless of course someone wants to start a $cholar$hip for me?

 

I don't think anyone will disagree with this statement. However, even though it's true, it's not the whole truth.

The whole truth is that many of the people who pursue non-RA degrees are not doing so to become better educated. They are doing so to appear better educated. The 12,500+ people who bought instant degrees from the defunct "University of Berkley", or the even greater numbers (hundreds of thousands?) who bought instant degrees from the St. Regis operation, were not motivated by a sincere desire to improve their minds.

This is not to say that all unaccredited universities are diploma mills, or that all those who pursue unaccredited degrees have sleazy intentions. But the unfortunate truth is that it is often difficult to tell the "good" unaccredited degrees (and degreeholders) from the "bad" unaccredited degrees (and degreeholders) -- especially given that the "bad guys" do everything that they can appear legitimate.

You may have "good" reasons for pursuing an unaccredited degree, and that's fine. But you should recognize there are also some very "bad" reasons for pursuing such a degree, and that the skepticism that such degrees often face has a legitimate basis.

 

Interesting discussion...

In sum, RA degrees are overall best if you can afford them and they offer what you need; however, this RA or nothing mentality is an educational philosophy that makes people dumb, or at least dumber than they would otherwise be if you encouraged them to move forward.

YOU ARE STUPID to preach and practice an educational philosophy (i.e., educational bigotry) that holds people back! Any questions?

Dave

 

Wouldn't the numerous South African and Australian universities with distance doctorates be a reasonable alternative in the kind of situation under discussion here? Over the past couple of years, I've heard from perhaps two dozen people (including 5 or 6 who have posted here, and/or on the DegreeDiscussion.com board) who have done or are doing distance doctorates at major universities in those countries, always it seems with a cost under $10,0000 and sometimes under $5,000.

 

You may be placing what I said in an unintended context... If a regionally-accredited doctoral degree is required for a teaching position, then the holder of an unaccredited doctorate is not qualified based on that credential, and that's all there is to it. There is no need for the hypothetical or real derision that some wax about on this board. For example, if you submit your cv, listing a non-AACSB doctorate, to an AACSB school, it will be (probably) summarily trashed, because you are not academically qualified for the position at that school. It seems silly for the search committee to laugh at a non-AACSB doctoral holder though, so I hope it doesn't happen on the way to the dumpster...

Dave

 

We could say that encouraging educational philosophies that set people up for failure is equally as dumb.

Susanna

 

And then we could twist the logic unto the point torture, to justify our dumb conclusions... that is, that doing nothing in terms of systematic education is better than doing something. On the other hand, it makes sense to encourage people to move forward at all levels of the educational system and as high as possible in the sense that RA is highest... The RA or nothing education philosophy makes people dumb; that's my objection to it.

Dave



Dave

 

Yes. Who is that insult aimed at?

What's wrong with dropping the doctoral degree objective? Why not just read, write, do either paid or volunteer work, and take individual classes in your field of interest? Approaching things that way would render most of this accreditation talk moot.

While everybody always talks about being motivated solely by the education itself, nobody ever seems to want to consider education that doesn't pay off in a grand 'doctor' title. The thing with titles is that it does matter what other people think. Influencing people is the whole purpose of the exercise.

I think that most of us are willing to accept both that education is a good thing and that education is where you find it. More or less. But... I don't think that everyone is ready to accept that every purported 'doctorate' is always a credible one. To convince people of that, something more is needed, whether that's accreditation, academic reputation or whatever.

I don't consider myself 'RA or no-way'. But I do think that the burden-of-proof with non-accredited degrees is on the one with the degree. It needs to be sold. There's no need to believe anything unless we have some convincing reason why we should. I have no problem at all with anybody pursuing unaccredited education, so long as they don't expect me to unquestioningly salute it. I'm not enrolled in any accredited programs myself at the moment. But I'm not asking anyone to believe anything about what I'm doing either.

 

............

 

Yes, I think the SA doctoral programs should be explored if affordability is an issue. A friend of mine has a theology doctorate from SA and is a well-respected missiology scholar.

Dave

 

In the position that I'm in, although CPU is an SA school, it is a USA school, something that obviously UNISA cannot claim; it will make a difference in the long run.

As for cost, the CPU PhD program is just 5400, less 1000 when you submit your tuition up front bringing the cost down to 4400 and I was advised there is also an 15% discount if you enroll w/in 2 weeks after receiving your enrollment package bringing the final cost down to around 3700. All-in-all a pretty good deal.

 

Why would it matter in the long run, if what others think doesn't matter?

Warning sarcasm ahead
If you call right now, you'll get the second degree at half price...but wait there is more...if you recruit a friend yours will be absolutely free... that's right...free. So don't wait...call right now.

Susanna

 

Just remove the "Warning Sarcasm Ahead" label and I might think that you were being unjustly rude and/or opinionated but thanks for the warning anyway!

 

CPU: approved vs. accredited: a semantic scam?

There are many reasons why people should avoid an unaccredited "school" [sic] like California Pacific "University" [sic]. Unaccredited schools are pretty slick in how they advertise themselves to try and hoodwink unsuspecting people into spending their hard-earned money on their unaccredited "programs" [sic]. You will not find the word accredited anywhere on CPU's website because they have none. Instead, since the state of California allows them to operate, CPU simply notes on their website that CPU is "approved" to operate out of California. But this is a vast difference then being accredited. Please don't confuse "approved" to exist with "accredited." It's a semantic scam that prey's on unsuspecting people. Read it for yourself on CPU's website!

You can also click here to read more about CPU and other unaccredited schools.

 

Hi Brian, as a point of clarification, when I said "SA" I meant South Africa. Sorry for the confusion. UNISA could be a good choice, if people think they can deal with the possible off-shore delays and the hypothetical concerns about getting a degree from another country; this could be an issue or non-issue, depending on your circumstances.

Dave

 

I find that encountering unfamiliar facts and concepts, reading what others before me have thought about them, thinking deeply about what all of it means and hopefully perceiving patterns and connections, is the essence of education. It is for me anyway.

Even if somebody needs more structure and guidance than independent study provides, then what's wrong with non-degree courses and programs? What's wrong with joining special interest organizations and participating in their activities? If more emphasis is placed on the education for its own sake, and less on acquiring a credential at the end of it all, then accreditation issues become much less important. The range of available low-cost educational opportunities opens up dramatically when you look beyond university DL doctoral degree programs.

So what's the difference between - A. Learning things - and B. Learning things and finding a Ph.D. in the box? Isn't there some intention to become 'Doctor so-and-so'? And not only that, isn't there some expectation that other people will respond favorably to it, with increased respect?

There seems to be a lot of anxiety in this thread because most respondents appear unimpressed by the schools in your poll. People are being called 'stupid' and accused of trying to make other people stupid. Apparently somebody cares very much what other people think.

Ready to accept that every purported 'doctorate' is always a credible one? Is that wise?

I think that 'RA or no way' on one hand, and credulous belief and desire on the other, don't exhaust all of our options.

If you want to denounce me as an educational hard-liner, then I think that it would probably be more accurate to call me 'Academic credibility or no way'. Academic credibility needn't always be identified with RA.

If somebody wants other people to believe something that they don't already believe, the burden is always on the one making the claims. That's just simple rhetoric. People need to be given some reason to change their minds.

BTW, people in Columbus' day already knew that the world was round. The ancient Greeks had discovered that some 1700 years earlier and Eratosthenes had even produced a surprisingly accurate calculation of the size of the earth's sphere. (By using as data the different lengths of the sun's shadow at different latitudes, at high noon.) The Renaissance humanists and the invention of printing had spread the ancient scientific ideas, which were part of what motivated Columbus to try to reach China by going west rather than east. (Unfortunately, the 15'th century was using later, too-small estimates of the earth's size, so Columbus underestimated his task in 1492. Magellan's crew managed the circumnavigation in 1519.) But yeah, it was all just theoretical until somebody actually demonstrated it.

Probably not. Only a small group with similar interests is likely to be. But my point was that when you aren't expecting people to accept what you are doing, when you aren't asking them to endorse it, then the biggest consideration is whether you find it of value. Emphasizing grand degrees moves matters from that private sphere into a more public one.

 

My Head Hurts!

Many of these latter posts seem to be filled with more logic than with passion and make a strong argument. My position has never been against any decent RA/NA school, just the prohibitive cost$ in my current economic position.

That being said, I'm totally open to any accredited (as per USDoEd and CHEA) that has a price tag at (or below) what CPU is offering. Is there any other (even foreign) school out there?

Once again, I apologize in advance for being......poor.