UMass, West Texas A&M, Uni of Texas- Tyler...

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by sonya316, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You are like the person who I had a debate with on another forum. He kept saying I studied psychology at Morehouse, and I know people who are in Psychology PhD programs at Yale and Columbia. Most of those students have a BS in psychology. So, I pulled up a list of PhD students in Yale's psychology programs, and it turns out that the majority had a BA in psychology. The numbers weren't even close. He never said anything in response to that either because he knew he was wrong, or he was making stuff up. You learn to take people's anecdotes with a grain of salt.

    I am not mistaken because I did not say that Neuhaus made the comment in this thread.
  2. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Thanks for your feedback; I appreciate this.
  3. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    So you are bashing my anecdotes using your own personal anecdote? That seems a bit ironic.

    Again, I never asserted what I do or what my experience is in HR as the norm for hiring. What I shared was some very general guidelines about how recruiters approach hiring and how companies generally approach in-series promotions. Do you think I based those assumptions solely on the two companies where I've worked professionally? Go to a SHRM conference and talk to recruiters. Go to a SHRM conference and ask representatives of all of the major employers in a given state how they handle professional development.

    ROI metrics, I will say again, are fine. But they aren't the only indicator of a program's worth. Companies don't use ROI like that and neither should individuals. You like quantitative data? Fine. Base every decision in your life on quantitative analysis, that's your right as an individual. But others don't follow the same pattern. If they did, I cannot imagine anyone would ever major in the liberal arts.

    I've never said that my opinions were anything other than opinions. And you are free to take my opinions, based on experience, with as many grains of salt as you wish. Honestly, I would advise anyone taking career/educational advice from ANYONE on this forum to take that advice with a grain of salt, regardless of how scientifically sound that advice seems to be. And you can absolutely discount what I have to say. The thing is, at the end of the day, I'm the guy reading resumes. The people I work with? They read the resumes too. When we aren't in the office we are meeting with the people who read the resumes at the Googles and Facebooks of the world all the way down to the one person HR shops.

    We may differ on a lot of things. But we are all pretty much in agreement that we aren't going to be the degree police. We aren't going to place higher ranked schools above non or lower ranked schools. We just aren't going to do it. In fact, we have invested hundreds of thousands into HR software that doesn't even allow most users to view an applicant's name or where their degrees were awarded. Why? Because we (HR) care more about the hiring decision being about hiring the most qualified applicant. We don't want the best sounding school. We don't want the manager's cousin. We want the best applicant. And there are more and more companies following a similar approach.

    So, by all means, use that quantitative data to make your school choice. Completely ignore what I have to say if you want. But you have, once again, resorted to anecdotal data while asserting how your data is just so darn much more scientific than any of my own anecdotes. At some point, you might just have to admit that your assertions are just as subjective as my own.

    And that's really what this whole argument has been about. I don't care if you disagree with me. You are free to have a differing opinion. But rather than just tell me you disagreed, you tried to veil your own subjective opinions in facts. And at times like this you resort right back to anecdotal observations. Just admit that your opinions are just as fallible and I don't think we would even be arguing. But I don't see that happening. No, instead I see you trying again to assert that your magazine articles prove something that they really don't prove and then huffing and puffing that I'm the one taking offense.

    The word for that, by the way, would be buttHurt.
  4. novadar

    novadar Member

    You are funny Neuhaus. Thanks for the laugh.

    I just cannot understand why you needed to say another person would be "butthurt". Seriously, its very juvenile. Sure you disagreed, but "butthurt", this is not Beavis and Butthead.
  5. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Yet, I DID at the outset qualify my response as being restricted to this thread only... :yo:
  6. novadar

    novadar Member

    Not prone to hyperbole, just trying illustrate you have set a "standard" for behavior you expect to see. But if others don't like what you do or say, they must be unreasonable. Hypocrite, much?
  7. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I don't disagree at all. It's a juvenile way of saying something that very much occurs in an adult world. This is a casual setting. I didn't use the word at work. I didn't use the word in a board meeting. I suppose there are just some aspects of being a former enlisted sailor that just don't leave so easily. But still, so what? Adults say juvenile things all the time. Flipping someone the bird while driving is juvenile. Does that mean that if a stock broker flips someone the bird on his way home he's a bad stock broker?

    I don't know you but I would still have a hard time believing that you never, ever, under any circumstances say or do something that might be described as juvenile outside the workplace.

    And you're right, I didn't need to say "butthurt" to anyone. But, hey "butthurt" by any other name is "butthurt" nonetheless. I just don't understand why that word, juvenile or not, is such a hot button with you. My doctor said "crap" last week. Do you think I need to switch? My CPA told me my new watch was "sweet" should I have his work double-checked?

    I'm going to invite you to get over it. And I don't mean that in the offensive "get over it" sort of way. I mean seriously consider saying to yourself "Huh, I wouldn't have said butthurt. I think it is kind of juvenile. Oh well." and just let it float off into the sunset.
  8. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You keep saying that you aren't going to continue, but you do. Something really must be bothering you. I did not discount your anecdote by using my anecdote. I compared you to a person who had a similar attitude of thinking that his personal experience was more than enough for people to accept his assertions. The fact that he was wrong is not even that important. The problem is that he got offended when someone challenged him because he thought he was an expert in psychology PhD admissions. You keep bringing up ROI, but I discussed way more than ROI. You keep ignoring my other arguments for your own convenience.

    The liberal arts include the natural sciences, social sciences, humanities, and mathematics. Three out of four of those use quantitative data on a regular basis. Again, I have no problem with people challenging my opinions or my facts; I just prefer to engage in civil debates that attack the information presented and not the person.

    At the outset, you said I was mistaken, but I wasn't. If I had said that Neuhaus made the comment here, then I would have been mistaken. You chose to restrict the comment to this thread, but it was not restricted to this thread. It was obvious that it was not about this thread because Cookderosa hadn't participated in it.
  9. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Conversely, I too am a MBA holder (not intended as a big deal or lone authority). Even so, you elect to simply dismiss and/or contest alternative MBA input that differ with your own ideas (e.g., negating your own above quoted response once again re qualifier for authoritativeness, e.g., MBA holder)—and this circumnavigation being predicated by means of someone else as your [single] direct experience qualifier for authority on the subject area via [one] anonymous individual (from several years back)… who per your own observation, agreed with you. Simply remarkable sanantone…

    Question: Do you actually assess your thoughts prior to your endeavor to post cogent response/s that will viably support your views?

    P.S. Don’t concern yourself in locating the particular announcement from several years back; it’s unnecessary. However, please make available your information source per my earlier request re the reasoning for IBM’s requirement for AACSB accreditation as an eligible education expense for its employee’s vs. simply representing IBM’s decision process as some corporate fixed view regarding the UOP as being an accurate rational for its corporate policy.
  10. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Well, I said I wasn't going to continue arguing with you and I'm not. I think our disagreement sufficiently derailed this thread. I didn't mean to imply that I was going to cease posting in this thread altogether.
  11. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    My logic is not that the guy is right because he has an MBA. You did not comprehend my statement. I said it because it was more in line with the logic others presented in this thread. What it really shows is that people within the same field and with similar credentials often have different opinions, so basing your authority off of having an MBA or even working in business isn't enough.

    The article that talked about IBM's policy said it was because many of IBM's employees were flocking to University of Phoenix. If I can find the article, then I will post it. Organizations don't always make rational decisions. Some overreact to what they see as a problem.
  12. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    To address an earlier query as to why one might consider only AACSB programs, I suppose I can say that I am speculating as to what the future may hold.

    My company didn't much care for the University of Phoenix rush either. However, there are a good portion of people at my company who love Capella (don't ask). So requiring AACSB would have knocked out one of our management's favorite schools in the process. So we instituted a "not all online schools are equal, we will evaluate each school on a case-by-case basis for purposes of tuition assistance" policy. We also made a list of "safe" schools that had previously been vetted to management's satisfaction.

    This created an obvious issue; what makes a school acceptable? It was a whirlwind which resulted in a set of utterly confusing guidelines designed, most clearly, to forbid Phoenix while allowing Capella.

    AACSB accreditation, aside from being necessary for our company's accounting people (who are all required to be CPA eligible, even if they don't sit for the exam) is just a good thing if you can swing it. I wouldn't be surprised if, one day, my company also required it to pay for MBAs. Why did New York (and other states I'm sure) adopt AASCB as a pathway to the CPA exam? It's easier than individual evaluation of programs. Will it mean the difference between job and no job (outside of academia)? I don't know. As sanantone notes, organizations don't always make rational decisions.

    But if organizations did institute a blanket policy for tuition assistance, I would be less surprised if it followed AACSB than some other accreditation.
  13. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Oh, okay sanantone … I’ll just leave it that your reply was not germane to my qualifier AND it’s noticeable that you’re never mistaken.

    E.g., simply an exercise in futility...

  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You said my statement was inaccurate, but failed to show how it was inaccurate. You were mistaken in saying that the statement was inaccurate and assuming that it was about this thread when it clearly wasn't. There isn't even a need to twist words here. This is what I said.

    Tell me how this is inaccurate.
  15. novadar

    novadar Member

    Of course I say juvenile things, I have kids. LOL. Poop is a very frequent topic of conversation.

    I just thought you were Mr. Serious.


    How's this:

  16. major56

    major56 Active Member

    If I didn’t, perhaps it’s because you don’t necessarily clarify your posts very well (?). And I did qualify myself as not the lone authority sanantone. Nonetheless, I’m somewhat more likely to be direct experience qualified than you on this particular exchange. You ought to at least consider that as a possibility…

    Wishful thinking…
  17. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Very Zen.

    For the record, I have a toddler at home. Poop is also a frequent topic of conversation. If you thought I was always Mr. Serious, it just goes to show that you don't know me very well.

  18. major56

    major56 Active Member

    I already have ... you chose to go external the thread limitation I posted. But of course you already knew this...
  19. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You can't just place a limitation after the fact and call something inaccurate. It would be like Obama saying that he is a president of a country, and then you come in to say that he is inaccurate because he's not the president of Russia. Again, please tell me how it was inaccurate.
  20. novadar

    novadar Member

    Ah, what would world be without kids and jokes about #2's. My son loves Captain Underpants so there is much discussion of poop.

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