U.S. News 2020 College Rankings

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Sep 8, 2019.

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  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    The 2020 rankings of colleges and universities is set to be released by U.S. News on Monday, September 9th. But do they mean anything?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2019/08/07/us-news-world-report-college-rankings-mean-anything/1893244001/

    "They don’t know what’s going on. They’re just reacting to prestige, and prestige is the illusion of quality. It may get at something, but it isn’t getting at something real or trustworthy. "
    ~Douglas C. Bennett, former president, Earlham College, on U.S. News & World Report college rankings

    "Others lie to boost their standing. In 2019, the University of Oklahoma submitted false dataabout its fundraising. And, in 2018, Temple University’s Master of Business Administration program was stripped of its ranking after it was found to have lied about its students test data, among other things."

    "UC Berkeley, which often ranked as the best public school in the nation, was also recently moved to unranked “status” after misreporting alumni giving rates. In that case, the university reported the error itself."

    "Walter M. Kimbrough, president of Dillard University in New Orleans, has long refused to participate in the rankings system. He joked that he sends the U.S. News and World Report’s surveys back in the mail labeled as junk."
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    "They don’t know what’s going on. They’re just reacting to prestige, and prestige is the illusion of quality. It may get at something, but it isn’t getting at something real or trustworthy. "
    ~Douglas C. Bennett, former president, Earlham College, on U.S. News & World Report college rankings"

    That guy gets it. It isn't isolated to just rankings either. The same could be attached to entity type, tax status, accreditation body, location, delivery method, and on and on. Maybe someday a current comprehensive examination that gets to the heart of those matters and finds where quality is and is not will happen. Until then, those of us who read boards even outside of degreeinfo will have to clench our teeth when we read about people on the cusp of graduating from online programs through well-respected schools and still panicking about how the public will receive their degree because someone told them if wasn't done ground-based it won't be respected. That's why I always say that no matter what you do or where you go, someone will have a problem with the place you got your degree from and/or the way you got it.
     
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  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    I'm glad more and more people are catching on.
     
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  4. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    If you search US News this morning, all these colleges are having an orgasmic reaction to the new college rankings. I can't help but wonder how many of them supplied false data to make themselves look good. These schools use their U.S. News rankings as an advertising tool.

    I noticed that the tier 2 ranking has changed from #231-300 to #293-381 in the national universities category.
     
  5. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

  6. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I look at the ranking for the top 50 universities at the National Ranking. It does not seem a college degree worth the money and effort anymore. The tuition is in the $50,000.00 range per year; that equates to $200,000.00 for a college degree. With the interest rates, it takes forever to take it back since you cannot pawn your Harvard College diploma for money.

    With the crazy college tuition, my kids are going to earn their college degrees through MOOC. :)
    - University of Florida, University of London, or University of Pennsylvania's LPS for Undergraduate
    - Then a Master degree through one of the MOOC's program.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  7. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    I agree with your cost saving strategy. However, are you going to rob them of the college experience?
     
  8. Marcus Aurelius

    Marcus Aurelius Active Member

    Why does everyone get so hung up on the "college experience?"
     
  9. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    Why shouldn't they be? I personally have only done two semesters of part-time studies on a college campus as a working 18/19 year old. I've earned all my degrees online.
     
  10. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    When I did my M.A., Vermont College of Norwich University would occasionally have week-long colloquia on campus. When I went to one of them, there was a student who arrived with a large picnic chest full of beer and a massive book box (stereo). He said that he was determined to have a "college experience" while he was there. Fortunately, I never heard anything come from the boom box, and never saw him drunk, so he might have reconsidered.

    Um, I don't think I would try his method of seeking a "college experience" at Liberty University.
     
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Not even young people necessarily think it's important. My eldest went to Virginia Tech for a year, and that summer he said, "It's okay, and I'm not sorry I went there, but it's not worth it to go back." He's been finishing up at Charter Oak and working ever since.
     
  12. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    Liberty is definitely not the school for that. I couldn't even imagine attending LU as an on-campus student. However, I wanted to attend their college for a Weekend but I'm too old (over 25) lol.
     
  13. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    I think my whole was that I wanted to be away from home and experience living on a dorm. Although I didn't get to do that in college, my first police academy was live-in and so I got to experience the dorm life with roommates lol
     
  14. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I don't think college experiences worth $200,000.00 student loan unless they are someone could get at least 80% of scholarship. I met someone who got a 4.2 high school GPA, flunk 2nd years at Oklahoma State University. He ended up graduating on the 5th years with 2.5 GPA in Bachelor of Science in Accounting. Now, he could not find a job in accounting because of lacking experiences.

    The trade-off for my kids would receive a $200,000 condominium, a $20,000.00 brand new car and $30,000.00 to start his or her own life. The only thing I am asking for is at 18 years old, he or she must be in Medical school or a Master degree if choosing an alternative route.

    I did not have any college experience, but I joined the gang group upon graduating from High School. Spent my 4 years in the active as a gang member...while earning my four-year college degree.
     
  15. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    That's a good rationale. I went that route as well because I didn't want to take any student loan and my parents couldn't afford to send me to college. At 22, I had almost 4 years of police experience and 15 months of business experience (started working right after my 17th birthday).

    Your post would make it seem as if every degree comes at a 200k price tag. Not! Many public school's tuition are under 20k per year and some even under 10k.
     
  16. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    College ranking feels a little like Miss America to me. It's fun to watch - all the pretty people being rated and compared against each other. But then, we turn off the tv and go back to our normal lives.
     
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

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  19. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

  20. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    That's certainly true of the reputation scores. Particular schools have the best reputations so they appear at the top of the rankings, which supposedly justifies the reputations. It's entirely circular.



    UC Berkeley's high undergraduate SATs are kind of a joke. Some large percentage of freshman admits aren't even included in the stats: athletes, children of alumni and celebrities, members of ethnic groups whose numbers they want to increase and receive preferential admissions... So Berkeley''s freshmen do indeed have impressively high SATs, except when they don't.



    Back in the day, in the early 1960's, Berkeley and the University of California were only supposed to accept the top 10% of California high-school graduates. (And in those days, California's K-12 system was very good.) But since then, they realized that the top 10% weren't producing the mix of students that activists and administrators wanted. So today they dip far below the top 10%. Nevertheless, popular reputation still has it that Berkeley is exceedingly selective. And the doubtful freshman SAT figures are there to support it.

    What's more, Berkeley is hugely research intensive. It's produced many Nobel Prize winners. (Many of them long ago, in the 1940's/1950's period.) But none of that really contributes very much to the quality of undergraduate education. Apart from producing star-studded faculty lists whose professors avoid teaching undergraduate classes like the plague. (And trying to coerce them is dangerous, since star professors are free-agents and can easily move to another university, taking their department's reputation with them.)

    Bottom line, Berkeley is trying to leverage their popular reputation, star-studded faculty lists, history and graduate/research prowess into undergraduate educational ranking strength. Of course they aren't alone in doing that. Everyone does it, just look at the ivy league. Some schools have become very good at playing the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
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