Touro University Worldwide/los Angeles??

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by allenplus4, Apr 13, 2012.

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  1. USGRAD

    USGRAD Member

    https://www.guidestar.org/organizations/13-3838740/touro-university.aspx
    Non-Profit Report

    “[T]he university's operations consist of touro university california (tuc),
    LOCATED IN VALLEJO, ca, which offers a degree in osteopathic
    medicine and various masters degrees, and touro college los angeles
    (tcla), which offers various bachelors degrees the university had a third
    division, touro university international, whose operating assets were
    sold in October 2007 which offered bachelors, masters and doctoral
    degrees through the internet”





     
  2. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    I would say yes and I hope to be one of those people in the next 6-8 weeks. I have taken some action and will follow up when a decision has been made.

    USGRAD,
    You strike me as a "Lone Ranger" kid of guy. Who is that masked man? What do you know, what circles are you in, and where do you come from? I would assume Columbia U since you listed your coworkers links and they were at Columba U...
     
  3. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    Of all the things which Trident University could explain why does it choose this historical fact, and that alone, to address?

    There are serious concerns that prospective students, current students, faculty and staff there have, many of which have been raised in these forums, (though some also elsewhere - see for example Trident university TUI increasing tuition rates - Baseops Forums), including:

    - the recent mass firing of dedicated, long-serving and experienced educators and staff at the university,

    - the apparent emasculation of the doctoral program and speculation about its closure,

    - the concerns regarding Trident University's lack of academic integrity which raise questions about the validity of the degrees it has granted and the potential for that to lead to a further formal complaint to WASC more serious and more debilitating than the transcripts scandal of 2011.

    - the likelihood that the university is up for sale again, with who knows what disruption ensuing from that.

    to name but a few.

    Given the way Trident University International has treated staff and faculty recently it is disingenuous in the extreme to suggest that further questions should be sent directly to the university's compliance officer rather than posted anonymously in forums such as these.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2012
  4. USGRAD

    USGRAD Member

    Hi Randel:

    I do know quite a “bit” and legitimately so. Maybe, we will meet soon. This has always been a no-brainer for me, and I am very pleased (albeit angry that it has taken this long) that this situation is being rectified.

    I have always maintained that graduates of Touro University International (Branch Campus of Touro College) are NOT graduates of TUI University (or Trident University International). When a Branch campus ceases to operate the records should be maintained by the main campus, and NOT SOLD.

    Touro College (soon to be “Touro College and University”) is a major academic institution with some highly ranked programs. You are a bonafide graduate of Touro College (through its Branch Campus), and you should not be denied that status.

    DO NOT allow anyone to bully or railroad you.

    We will be in touch soon.
     
  5. USGRAD

    USGRAD Member

    Please see Private Mail.
     
  6. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    I replied~
     
  7. krich

    krich New Member

    I graduated from Touro University International with a PhD in 2006 and have followed this issue intently since the travesty occured in 2007. I see that there might be some progress with giving us back the right to be associated with Touro College we earned. I would like to talk with you both offline (USGRAD and Randell1234) to find out what is being done - or what can be done (and how I can help) to have our records maintained by Touro College.
     
  8. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    I sent you a PM
     
  9. dbillings2008

    dbillings2008 New Member

    My transfer is in process as well.
     
  10. dbillings2008

    dbillings2008 New Member

    Transfer of Records

    I'm still working my way through the process, but so far no movement.
     
  11. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    Who have you contacted?
     
  12. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I can understand why a graduate of Touro University International might be frustrated by this situation. If it happened to me, I personally would rather have my records at Touro College than at Trident. Unfortunately, some of the arguments in this thread don't make sense:

    A school cannot be both independently accredited and a branch campus of another school. It is one or the other. I can see that Touro University International was a branch campus of Touro College up until 2005. But when it got independent accreditation, it became an independent institution.

    i agree that this applies to Touro University International before 2005. But after 2005, TUI wasn't a branch campus anymore. It was an independent institution, separate from Touro College.

    Technically this is true. But student records are an "asset". Here's what Trident says:

    I agree that anyone who graduated from Touro University International before 2005 should be able to claim a degree from Touro College. Unfortunately, that connection may have been broken after Touro University International got separate accreditation.

    Trident is still claiming continuity with Touro University International. In fact, they are now offering previous graduates the chance to purchase a Trident diploma:

     
  13. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    Are you sure they are not referring to people with TUI University dipolmas?
     
  14. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    The wording is not explicit, but it's pretty obvious that Trident believes that Touro University International, TUI University, and Trident University International are the same school. The webpage with the diploma offer also states:
    And this would be consistent with the wording on the diploma offer. It refers to alumni who "received a diploma with a previous University name". The phrase "a previous University name", instead of "the previous University name", implies that there was more than one previous name.
     
  15. USGRAD

    USGRAD Member

    Caldog :
    The information you quoted was on that website prior to the involvement of the relevant authorities (including the MSCHE - Middle States Commission on Higher Education). That information will be dropped soon or have no value. Suffice to say, it is a FACT that graduates of Touro University International (Branch Campus of Touro College, NY) can now obtain their academic records directly from Touro College, NY. Also, verification of the award of the degree can be obtained via the National Student Clearinghouse. This is standard operational procedure (which was not initially followed) when a Branch Campus ceases to operate – that is, the records are maintained and issued by the parent or main campus.

    “Branch Campus - A location of an institution that is geographically apart and independent of the main campus of the institution. The location is independent if the location: offers courses in educational programs leading to a degree, certificate, or other recognized educational credential; has its own faculty and administrative or supervisory organization; and has its own budgetary and hiring authority.” (MSCHE)
     
  16. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I'm not questioning that -- I agree that pre-2005 Touro University International students attended a branch campus of Touro College, NY, and should have Touro transcripts. My question is: what about people who graduated from Touro University International after 2005, when it was no longer a branch campus of Touro College, NY ?

    Again, I'm not questioning that Touro University International did, pre-2005, meet the MSCHE definition of a "branch campus". My question is: what does MSCHE say about a location that is so independent that it has separate accreditation from a different regional accreditor -- which was precisely the case for Touro University International after 2005 ?

    Now it's my turn to quote a regional accreditation agency:

    Are you suggesting that WASC's 2005 accreditation is nonexistent, or "doesn't count" ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
  17. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Sorry, I'm still confused. Questions:

    1. Do these "relevant authorities" include WASC ?

    2. Isn't WASC a "relevant authority" for post-2005 students -- since Touro University International was fully WASC-accredited in 2005 ?

    3. And if so, then what is WASC's position on this issue ?

    4. If Touru University International was a "branch campus" of an MSCHE-accredited school until 2007 (when it was sold to Summit Partners), then why does WASC indicate that Trident has been accredited since 2005 ?

    5. And if WASC considers Trident to have been accredited in 2005, then doesn't this imply continuity between Touro University International (post-2005), TUI University, and Trident University International ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
  18. USGRAD

    USGRAD Member

    This is a complex matter. WASC has not been transparent, and that is a huge problem. I am not surprised that WASC has been found by NACIQI not to be in compliance. Please refer to the quote and web link below (which do not specifically refer to this matter).

    In 2005 Touro University International (because of the size and other characteristics of its operation) became a separately accredited BRANCH Campus of Touro College. The MSCHE accreditation of Touro University International was transferred to WASC, however, it (Touro University International) remained a Branch Campus of Touro College.

    Now, it gets murky – the ASSETS of Touro University International included its WASC accreditation, which was "sold" to Summit Partners. You cannot sell a non-profit entity (hence Touro University International was not sold) – you can, however, sell or otherwise dispose of its ASSETS. Those assets were used by Summit Partners in November/December 2007 to create/incorporate a new institution (different OPEID #) called TUI University (now Trident University International).

    Suffice to say, there may be some misinformation and misrepresentation coming from Trident and WASC, but this will all be cleared up soon.

    By the way, did you know that Touro University International operated as a Division of Touro University California, which is in operation?

    Read more: WASC raises concerns about Education Department's evaluation of accreditors | Inside Higher Ed Inside Higher Ed

    “In the end, NACIQI voted unanimously to continue its decision for a year to allow both WASC and the nutrition and dietetics accreditor to come into compliance.”
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
  19. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I looked at some historical webpages for Touro International University (tourou.edu) from the 2005-2007 timeframe at archive.org. Two points:

    (1) At that time, TUI did claim to be both a branch campus of Touro College, NY and separately accredited by WASC.

    As I've indicated before, I question whether a school can really be considered a "branch campus" when it holds separate institutional accreditation, from a different regional agency, from the "main campus". But apparently TUI did make that claim.

    (2) Of more relevance to the present issue: if you were a student at Touru University International in 2005-2007, you could not get your transcripts from Touro College. The old Touro College website explicitly states the following:

    If Touro College denied responsibility for TUI student records in 2005-2007 -- at the time that TUI was supposedly an active "branch campus" -- then it becomes harder to make the case that Touro College should have that responsibility today.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
  20. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I'm not buying the "different OPE ID #" argument.

    It's apparently true that TUI had the same OPE ID # as Touro College, and that the OPE ID # changed after the purchase by Summit.

    But here's the problem: a 2008 government audit has already determined that Touro made a mistake with the OPE ID numbers. According to the audit, TUI should have had a different OPE ID # even before 2005, as a branch campus of Touro College:

    So while it's true that Summit Partners received a separate OPE ID #, TUI should have had a separate OPE ID # even before Summit was involved. You can see that other Touro College branch campuses (including other operations in California and Nevada) had separate OPE ID numbers, as per Attachment B of the audit.

    If Touro College had obtained a separate OPE ID # for TUI prior to 2005 -- and the audit indicates that they should have done this -- then it's possible that Trident would have the same OPE ID # today.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012

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