To go for a PHD or not

What the heck is a "fake student"?

 

Unbelievable!

Dave Wagner, what are you talking about again!!!! Get over it!

 

Someone who pretends to be a student...

Dave

 

I understand these reasons, but I honestly don't think they will be sufficient to sustain you through the entire doctoral process. It is particularly compelling to follow in the footsteps of someone you admire, but, again, will this be sufficient motivation to register again and again five, six, or even seven years down the road? Dunno. Still, I wish you the best...

Dave

 

Dave Wagner, why do you have "issues" with "NoCentral University" (aka Northcentral University or NCU)??? And even more importantly, why do you have issues with me? Again? Let it go!

 

As Vinipink asked, what would you like to do with the doctorate? The doctorate is designed for teaching in higher education, so it has very little economic utility beyond your other qualifications. In sum, that's a great deal of work (and expense) for what may amount to a pay cut. By the way, how old are you? The economics of earning the degree unfold even more against you the older you are, a la what Ted said.

Dave

 

It is personal satisfaction for me, too. I like your comment about the car, though. If I didn't have school I'd just spend my time on other pursuits that are not as lasting as education.

I don't really have any hobbies. School may be the outlet for me in much the same way that woodworking and sports are for others. While I do enjoy woodworking and sports quite a bit, I feel education is more fulfilling and lasting in the long run.

From a more practical viewpoint, my industry does place a great deal of emphasis on the doctorate. It's the driving reason my company picks up the tuition tab. Free personal fulfillment is a hard combo to beat.

I do get down once in a while. School does take away some family time. I do think I balance work, school, and family well enough, though. I'm just completely wiped out at the end of the day. However, I know this time of year is the worst and I'll catch a breather in a month or so. I'll then look back on it all and be glad I stayed in the doctorate program. I do give thought toward quitting every so often...like everyday. I still keep signing up for that next course. Eventually, I will be done.

Bing

 

Thanks for your best wishes, and I guess we'll see if they are enough to sustain me throughout the process . . . different people are driven by different motivations. I've already put almost two years into my doctoral studies, by the by, and only took a year off to regroup after a rather bitter divorce -- my studies were suffering, and I didn't want anything to affect them. But I'm back on track now, and can't imagine not following through.

But sometimes I do think that personal satisfaction can be the strongest motivator of all, beyond ROI or anything else, and I think others on this forum seem to be working toward their doctorates for just that reason, as I am.

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

Bing, I can relate. I took a year off from my doctoral studies for personal reasons (see post above), for during that period, I could not make that balance work. But I knew that once I recovered and healed from that, I'd be back to it, and so I am now. Sure, it's still a long slog, but it's worth it in the end . . . and after all, as I see it, the time will pass whether or not I'm studying, so I figure I should make best use of that time.

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

It is hard to justify this based on any standard ROI analysis.

It is plain and simple something you really want to do no matter what.

You have to be willing to sacrifice time, money and other activities to accomplish but, it is well worth it in my case as it had been a goal for 20 years.

If I had not gone ahead and done it, I would have always regretted not trying.

Don't do it unless you truly want it and are willing to make the sacrifices mentioned.

Now Dr. BH

 

It may be that research and teaching are just in your blood but not fully activated yet. The doctoral process is helpful for building researchers and teachers because the mentor/mentee relationship is a powerful way to build those skills. You can get personal satisfaction by writing a book or starting a company, too. People seem to think that they need the doctoral badge to feel respected and listened to. However, you don't really need a badge to bring ignorance to justice...

Dave

 

Dave, I can assure you that "me again" is indeed a real person, and is in fact a student at Northcentral University.

I know his real name, where he works, I've spoken with him on the phone, and he proved beyond any shadow of a doubt (not that I had any to begin with) that he is a doctoral student at NCU.

If you have a problem with me again, please take it to PM or e-mail. If you want to debate the merits of NCU, feel free to start another thread, but please don't ruin this one.

 

Hi Bruce,

"me again" conceals his identity and levels personal attacks against real people. Concealing ones identity is lying. In my opinion, you should have banished that liar from this group a long time ago.

As for NCU, you seem to be misrepresenting my opinion of the school, an opinion which I have shared many times, and that is somewhat positive, overall.

Do your job, Bruce, and kick these liars and shills off the board. That's what moderators do.

Thanks,

Dave

P.S. Oops, I forgot to say please... I don't mean to sound rude, but is time for some action on your part.

 

Well, actually I have over seven years' experience teaching full time at the tertiary level, and have already published several times as well, so I doubt that you could say that they are not activated in me. Earning a doctorate is not about wearing a badge for me; rather, it is about a goal I have held for a long time, and one that I want to achieve. It will be nice if it adds value to my professional work, but if it doesn't, then that's not a big deal to me. I'll still be happy with my accomplishment.

Yes, the other ideas (book, company) are good goals, too, but not everyone shares the same goals. Please correct me if I'm interpreting your posts incorrectly, but it seems to me that you don't think that earning a doctorate for personal satisfaction is a worthwhile endeavor. If my perception is correct, could you please explain why you feel this way?

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

Ah, great question... I think it is too much work and too self-centered of a process. This is my religious background kicking in. Self is to be denied for the greater good. Personal satisfaction is fine but when the pursuit of it becomes all-encompassing, such as completing a doctoral process, then it could be bad thing... Anyway, that is my bias... I suppose that one could construct an argument that earning a doctorate does help the greater good, such as one's family, or helping people in a special way, but those might be rationalizations.

Again, earning a doctorate is not a bad thing, but pleasing one's inner self isn't enough motivation in my opinion. There has to be a payoff for family, community, or the Almighty. Moreover, there is the overall problem that the mid-life doctorate really doesn't make much sense financially, as in, I think would like to win the lottery and work on a doctorate until it is all gone...

My two cents,

Dave

 

Great reply, Dave, thanks, I do appreciate it. Your opinions and viewpoints are quite interesting, and once again I'm so glad that not everyone thinks alike on this planet -- what a boring world we would live in if we did!

I suppose if I wanted to argue this point, I'd do it from a personal level, in that my dissertation, for the Ed.D. program, will be actually providing good to a select population group, as I'll be creating and providing a solution to help people adjust when they go abroad and work, which is happening more and more frequently these days. Forgive me for not going into specifics here -- I've learned from others to keep a bit quiet about disssertation topic particulars until you're done writing it.

But anyway, so I guess I could argue that although one of my greatest motivators for doing the Ed.D. is personal satisfaction, it's not totally a self-serving exercise. In addition, the knowledge I gain along the way will surely help me to be a better professional in the training and development field, even if I don't see financial returns . . . because I help others to plan their professional development, and even deliver training now and again, then the knowledge and insights I gain will be passed on, even indirectly. Others could also argue this point as well, I would surmise, by saying that they are contributing to the theoretical base which will eventually affect how things are done in their respective fields, but I thought I would just keep this posting to my own personal level.

As for financial sense of a mid-life doc, well, I can afford this on my income, and anyway, I'd rather spend the money on this than buying a new BMW right now . . . my older model suits me just fine.

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

If you are not sure about persuing a Doctorate at this time I would suggest the following options:

1) Obtain another masters degree in a different area than IT. Perhaps an MBA or similar degree would supplement your IT credentials - as one progresses in a career, one usually ends up in some degree of management.

2) Divert your educational funds into a 401K, IRA, or an annuity - its never to early to plan for retirement.

 

He has a VERY good reason for not revealing his identity, Dave. You're simply going to have to trust me on that one.

BTW...shall I kick everyone off the board who goes by an anonymous username? That would make things awfully lonely around here.

That's what I've been doing. Sorry I haven't been doing it to your personal satisfaction.