Titulo Propio EdD UCAM and Brittany University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Ran, Mar 19, 2021.

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  1. Ran

    Ran New Member

    Hi all,
    First time posting here. I came across an EdD being offered by Brittany university France online
    https://brittanyuniversite.fr/programmes/edd-doctor-of-education-awarded-by-brittany-universite-france/
    in conjunction with UCAM
    https://www.ucam.edu/estudios/partners/brittany-universite

    The cost and time frame of completeion seems resonable and I have spoken to the chair of Brittany and he admitted they are relatively new. I asked about UK Naric and their association with the London education board (LEB)
    https://leb.education/product/edd-doctor-education-awarded-horizons-university-paris/
    He said they are doing it in partnership with LEB and that they are in dialogue with UK Naric now UK ENIC. I find this scenario not entirely unusual but strange.

    Also, the person who is in charged at UCAM said that I would get the degree from them and it would have the amount of credit I did and that if an employer wanted more information they could call and the school can varify I was a student there.

    I am qualified in two different professions. I don't need the degree to get a job but I am interested in doing some research in an area that interests me personally and I see the degree as personal development as well and to fulfill my own vanity (smiles). I am also looking at Euclid (I know it does not get much love around here) and Texila as they are both online and cost effective as well. I really don't have the time go back and sit in a classroom on campus. Am going on a bit now. Anyhow, some educated input from you guys would be welcome.
     
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    You could do a Doctorate with Azteca for about $5300.
     
  3. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Neat. It seems unusual that they advertise "dual award" and "triple award" programs. Why do I need these things?

    I'm surprised their programs are in English. Going back to the discussion of ENEB, wouldn't it be weird to have a degree issued by a French university and validated by a Spanish one when you don't speak either of those languages?

    This question in the FAQ makes me nervous:
    That's a lot of words that all mean "no."
     
  4. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

  5. Ran

    Ran New Member

    Some strange things going here indeed! Also, the fact that I don't speak French or Spanish is a worry as you rightly pointed out. But then other name brand universities do the same thing that UCAM does.
    They offer courses in another country in another lanugage. I may need to look else where then. Thats a shame really, I do like UCAM and they are highly regarded based on my research and ranked 1001 in the world based on Times Higher Education and is listed in most, if not all relevant directories.
    Anyway many thanks Dustin
     
  6. Ran

    Ran New Member

    Yes I did come across Azteca while searching the forum. I did not know they offered courses with English as the language of instruction.
    Thats one to look into. Nice one and many thanks!
     
  7. Johann766

    Johann766 Member

    I´ve been wanting to post something about Brittany Universite for a while but now you were faster then me ;-)
    Their cooperation with UCAM is not unique, other institutions also offer franchise UCAM degrees.
    However they are the only institution I´ve seen that cooperates with Vern University in Croatia.

    The DBA degree from Britanny/Vern states explicitly that it is a "certificate":
    https://brittanyuniversite.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/2021-VERN-Sample-certificate-DBA.pdf

    12.000 Euros for this DBA "certificate" is way to expensive in my opinion.

    LEB also offers an EdD from the unaccredited Horizons University for £10900 which is a joke in my option.
     
    datby98 likes this.
  8. datby98

    datby98 Member

  9. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Yeah, lots of schools' diplomas/parchments leave something to be desired. I remember a school in Texas awarding its Scholars of Distinction (or similar award at graduation based on graduating with honors), where the certificate they received was a stock MS Word certificate template.
     
  10. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Doesn't look bad to me, but I've also seen some pretty terrible diplomas.
     
  11. Ran

    Ran New Member

    I wonder if students are actually enrolled in their courses.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  12. Ran

    Ran New Member

    The one from UCAM looks ok when compared to others I have seen from so called legit Universities.
     
  13. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Except the logo isn't centered!
     
  14. datby98

    datby98 Member

    You must have eagle eyes, Dustin:emoji_thumbsup::p
     
  15. Ran

    Ran New Member

    I saw that! Lol! But I have seen the one from the graduation and its centered.
    Surely they would not hand that out to student at graduation or send something like that in the post.
    Would they they? lol. By the way what do you guys think of Texila American University online courses.
    I am talking to them but you know they are going to up sell themselve.
    I have spoken to one student who said the nursing PhD is good.
    Also seen a graduation where students are praising their method and material used for online instruction.
     
  16. datby98

    datby98 Member

  17. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I used to do hiring for a call center. And I recall one instance where I placed this woman. She had a Masters in French, had been a French teacher but it was very low paid and the call center had higher pay and better benefits. Anyway, I received a very angry call from the center manager about a month after she started because they put a French speaking client on the phone with her and she was unable to effectively communicate. They eventually got the customer over to another rep who was from a French speaking country who was able to help as well as pass on the customer's thanks to the first woman who "tried so hard to speak French." Two degrees in French. A documented history teaching French. Semester long studies in both France and Quebec. And we ended up with a Peggy Hill situation just the same.

    When I first started at my current company we had two people (long since gone). The first was a talker. Cliff Claven type who was an expert in everything. Among his stated expertise was Greek culture since he "spent a lot of time" in Greece. The second guy was actually from Greece. And he was getting tired of this guy spouting really, really wrong information about Greeks. It was a lot of stereotypes and, in the view of my Greek colleague, the sort of things a person might say if their only exposure to Greece was watching My Big Fat Greek Wedding. So one day, the gentleman from Greece walks up and speaks Greek to our big talker. And to everyone's shock and astonishment, he responds in, according to the Greek colleague, highly impressive Greek. As it turned out, he didn't really spend "a lot of time" by most measures. He had gone on two three week trips when he was in his 20's and early 30's (he was in his late 50's). However, he was one of those people who absorbed languages like a sponge and he taught himself Greek. In retrospect, I don't actually believe his claim that he kept it all going purely by book reading over the years and suspect he likely worked harder at it and had a language partner but wanted to sound more impressive.

    Language fluency, while there are objective tests, is largely a subjective measure. The term "fluency" is very often overused. It implies that you speak with a native proficiency. In practice, people with basic conversational skills often claim to be "fluent." The parts of our brain dealing with language also require ongoing usage to really be able to put a language to use. Don't use it and it goes away and quite quickly from what I gather. I guess what I'm saying here is that there are many more people who claim to be fluent in a language than people who honestly say "Hey, I had exposure to this culture educationally/vocationally/recreationally and I can speak enough to get through but I haven't used it in a while and it's probably mostly gone."

    Having spent a little time in Italy from my Navy days people will sometimes ask if I speak Italian or, sometimes, just start speaking Italian to me. And I usually respond with "Io capito un po l'italiano, non parlo bene." No one calls me a fraud or accuses me of having not lived there. I clearly have some background or contact with the language. I think that if you said you lived in Rome and undertook a course of study in English and responded as I just did with Italian most people would say "Oh, OK!" And for the Italian speaker they will try to boost your confidence and say "You speak Italian very well!" even though you very obviously do not.

    Where the problem comes in is where you either directly state that you are fluent or set your credentials up in a manner so that a reasonable reader would infer that you are fluent in a language and do nothing to correct them. If you are not fluent, then this is a ticking time bomb no matter where you studied. You could have spent four years studying at Sorbonne (the real one) but if all you can talk about in French is how Jacques is at the train station then you're in for a world of hurt if someone ever questions your claim about being fluent in French.

    There are multiple layers of consideration here that make this, perhaps, not an attractive option:

    1. Propio degrees are already limited. They may be perfectly fine for most people in most settings. But they have limitations even if they are only immigration, admission to doctoral programs (which, as I said in another thread, isn't particularly uncommon for professional degrees like the MBA anyway) or the handful of jobs that would require an evaluation. The limitation exists whether it is likely to affect you or not.

    2. Complicated validation scheme with confusing cross border relationships. SMC could pick up AACSB accreditation tomorrow and the whole Swiss/Nicaragua thing is going to look odd. If you have to advertise the accreditation of your program to an employer to establish that it is legit then this is not a school you want on your resume.

    3. The cultural and linguistic issues we are discussing here.

    So you're three layers into why this is probably not an ideal program.
     
    Dustin likes this.
  18. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    100% Neuhaus. I like the CEFR scale to judge proficiency. It has 5 levels: A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2. C2 is the level of an educated native speaker. Few people ever reach that level. C1 is what we might call "fluent", able to discuss a wide range of topics, including complicated topics they've had no exposure to before, with few or no errors and able to comprehend quickly-talking native speakers. B2 is advanced conversational. The minimum level to study or work in a foreign country, and many B2'ers still make lots of mistakes.

    B1 is intermediate conversational. A2 is advanced beginner, A1 is beginner, and A0 is no exposure (not an actual level of the scale but used informally to designate anyone who hasn't reached A1.) On the language learning forums I'm on, we're all very humble about our abilities, but I can see how someone who might be B1 or B2 simply tells someone they're "fluent" rather than getting into the complexities of it all, or maybe they simply don't know what they don't know - since a B1 speaker can likely watch documentaries without subtitles and a lot of television and comprehend it but would struggle to communicate in a fast-paced environment.

    I know this was a bit OT, but I always enjoy nerding out around languages. I've got on my bucket list to get my French to B2 and one day to get back to Arabic.
     
  19. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I have a friend who is Russian but has no accent. She went to a job interview where her resume said she was fluent in Russian and she said one of the interviewers smirked when he saw this, asked if it was true and then began speaking to her in Russian whereupon she, of course, responded flawlessly (and afterward corrected some tense he had used). She was really angry about it and was venting to me afterward. How dare this guy call her a liar and try to call her out in front of a hiring committee like that! And, she's right, it was very unprofessional of him (whether one personally agrees or not). Still, I told her that you have to wonder how many fake Russian speakers he has caught with that trick.

    That's why if you're going to lie make them things that no one lies about elsewhere.

    Be a professional whose career was not meteoric and involves a step or two back at various points. Claim an MBA from the University of Phoenix. Say you're able to read and write basic Spanish.

    I just invented the individual above and it looks significantly more real, and common, than 99% of the frauds out there who try to make themselves look like rockstars.
     
  20. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    There's something about the essence of fakery that causes people to overdo it. Few people claim they served 4 years in the Army as a wheeled-vehicle mechanic or something, maybe deployed. Didn't see much action and got out. If they're faking it, they're going to claim to be Special Forces with multiple deployments to risky areas and doing all sorts of heroics that quickly get them detected. I don't get why, but it seems to show up in all sorts of places.
     
    sks972 likes this.

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