The Union Institute

Well Richy, just for you I phone a HR director at a US Fortune 100 company.

She has not experienced nor ever heard of a bias specifically against foreign degrees. She said, and I quote, "a good school is a good school".

She added that if there were questions regarding a candidates credentials, or the portrayal of their credentials, it is generally a fairly easy task to ascertain the reputation of a foreign school.

In response to my question she indicated that, all things equal, she would rather have a degree from a foreign school with a good reputation than a degree from an American school with a questionable reputation. Simply, it is much easier to explain why you chose a good school than why you chose a poor one.

Sorry for this dose of reality.

 

Why don't you go to some Ivy league web-sites and see how many degrees there are from foreign schools and compare that with the number from US 4th tier/on-line/non-traditional schools. I think I like my chances better with a foreign degree.

 

And you are wrong but that is OK, we love you anyway.

What has been proferred is the notion that a degree from a foreign school would be preferable to one from an accredited school in the U.S. I am saying this isn't so for U.S. residents. That's all.


Rich Douglas[/B][/QUOTE]

 

To quote Jack Nicolson... "You can't handle the truth!"

 

Wow. A research project with one data point. That data point is uncited. (Might we know the person's name so your "research" might be replicated?) The author is anonymous and biased. You certainly must do your dissertation on this.

Rich Douglas

 

I agree, and in a perfect world we'd all be able to go to the brick & mortar school of our choice. I'd love to do my doctorate in Criminal Justice at Michigan State, Florida State, or CUNY-John Jay, but at this point in my life there's no way I could abandon my work and family responsibilities for the 4-5 years necessary to do things the traditional route. So my options are Union, Walden, Capella, etc. But, as you said, a doctorate from any of those schools combined with my experience would likely make me very marketable.

Bruce

 

I'd be willing to wager that all those "foreign" doctorates at the Ivys were earned very traditonally, so to compare them to DL schools like Union, Walden, etc., is absurd.

BTW, if you want your statements concerning the inferiority of US degree taken more seriously in the future, you really need to base them on more than a single phone call to someone in an HR department.

Bruce

 

Jack,

Funny...and true--for me, too.

 

Actually it wasn't a research project nor have I any interest in being involved in a research project which would reveal nothing which is not self-evident by a casual review of easily accessable sources (work visas, faculty lists, etc).

Dumb question of the day. No, I am not going to list the person nor the company I called... get real.

Rich, you are evidently confused again. She said that she is not, nor has experienced, any bias based on the "nationality" of the degree. She did not say that foreign degrees were better than US degrees... she said that good foreign degrees were more valuable than poor US ones... a very un-biased statement.

A dissertation on this... no meaningful contribution to knowledge, already self-evident.

 

I don't think that distance education is always inferior (depends on the program) but I will agree that it often is and is generally perceived as inferior. That is why it is wise to pursue as traditional an education as possible. What does this mean?
Traditional school
Traditional program
Traditional assessment
... non-traditional delivery

To get on my soap-box for a second, there is much more risk in pursuing an education that is very non-traditional than there is in pursuing a foreign credential.

 

You forgot Charles Sturt. They seem to be pretty big in criminal justice / legal studies and it may be possible to complete a reasonably priced, traditional doctorate, from a traditional school.

 

Depends on the question. Is the question the acceptance of foreign degrees or the acceptance of DL degrees... and if foreign degrees are accepted why would a foreign DL degree be less accepted than a US DL degree? Of course this point is somewhat moot since most of the foreign opportunities are not DL opportunities in the sense of the schools you mention. A doctorate from the University of Wales Lampeter is a doctorate from the University of Wales Lampeter... it is not a "DL school" nor offers a "DL doctorate", although you can negotiate residency requirements.
Finally, flexibiliy is an issue from a degree-consumer point of view but from a utility point of view "the best distance-learning degree available" is a dubious distinction.

 

I think you misunderstood what she said / I wrote. She did not say that US degrees were inferior. She said that if the option was between two degrees, one American and one foreign, and that the foreign degree was from a more reputable school... that the foreign degree would be a more valuable option. OK, I guess she did imply that there are "some" foreign schools that are better than "some" US schools... I guess some will still debate this point.

 

Your scenario doesn't take into account the background of the applicant. Let's assume I was a typical HR person, with no or little concept of DL. If I reviewed a resume from someone who had never lived outside of the US, and they listed a Ph.D. from (insert your favorite UK, Australian, or South African school here), I'd have a whole bunch of questions for them. Considering that every US RA doctoral program (with one exception) requires some sort of residency, that would raise another red flag. That doesn't even get into the fact that every UK, SA, & OZ doctoral program I've seen doesn't require coursework, just the dissertation. More red flags. To borrow a legal phrase, most HR people would look at "the totality of the circumstances". For instance, I live in Boston. Other than my various overseas jaunts in the US Army and a 3-week vacation in Australia, I've never lived outside the United States. Don't you think a UK doctorate would look a bit strange on my resume?

I would never venture to say which system is better, I think it's great that we have so many options available that satisfy almost every need. Students who are considering "foreign" (I hate that term in this international forum) degrees just need to factor in all the variables.

Bruce

 

The CEO of Boeing holds an earned Doctorate in Engineering from Science University of Tokyo. Source http://www.slu.edu/centers/iib/events/dgl/condit.html

 

No stranger than a degree from a University in Cincinatti for someone who was fully employed and whose work history shows they worked continuously in another city while getting the PhD. Either way, to quote ricky Ricardo, "You got some splainin' to do". Besides, at the PhD level, the opinions of the other PhDs that you interview with is much more important than that of some HR person.

 

From his biography, it seems that Phil Condit did indeed live in Japan, so a Doctorate from a Japanese school really isn't a surprise.

To move into Jerry Springer mode for a sec, do you suppose he's related to California US Representative Gary Condit, the "non-suspect" (snicker) in the disapperance of his young intern, Chandra Levy?

Bruce

 

You seem a little confused. Are we talking about the acceptance of foreign degrees or the acceptance of DL degrees?

Foreign degrees are, again, very accepted.

 

This argument has always amazed me because it is so stupid... I won't pursue a traditional degree from a respected foreign university via distance because people might punish me for a DL degree... however I will puruse a degree from a US school across the country (perhaps a 4th tier school with a reputation for DL) because they won't know it is a DL degree. Gerstl, what is the cause of this so blatant irrationality?