The unaccredited Harvard and Yale...

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by PaulC, May 21, 2004.

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  1. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    Why does this myth seem to flourish? It must be that if an unaccredited advocate can point to the mighty Harvard and Yale as examples of what lack of accreditation can do, then it bolsters their position.

    I'm just ready for the myth to fade. Harvard and Yale are both regionally and professionally accredited. Yale even flaunts their regional accreditation with a dedicated web site for that purpose.
     
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I suspect that it's misinformed incompetence. Oxford and Cambridge getting confused with Harvard and Yale perhaps?
     
  3. tolstoy

    tolstoy New Member

    I think the myth stems from programs, not the universities themselves.

    There are many accrediting bodies for different majors that schools that are excellent in certain discplines do not feel the need to have accreditation. It's only when it becomes a requirement to getting a job that requires accreditation do these types of schools bother with the process.

    For example, computer science is now an allowed field to take the patent bar. However, the program has to be accredited by some no name accreditation board before the patent office will recognize the degree. Many schools, such as UIUC and Michigan that are VERY good at CS never bothered having the degree accredited ten years ago because there was no impetus. Now there is. So, you'll probably hear that a program isn't accredited.

    By whom and to what end is the better question.
     
  4. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    I understand what you are saying, but most people can't even understand general level institution accreditation, so I don't think the reason is because of lack of understanding of an even more detailed and specific level of accreditation. The general myth is often stated simply that Harvard is unaccredited. I even had a senior level faculty where I work make this statement in a meeting a few weeks back. I know they were not thinking about program level accreditation.
     
  5. tolstoy

    tolstoy New Member

    Yes, but Harvard is unaccredited. It depends on what you are asking and what accreditation we are talking about. There isn't a single school that carries every accreditation available.
     
  6. zvavda

    zvavda New Member

  7. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    When a school is stated as being accredited or unaccredited, it is explicit to mean institutional accreditation. In order for a program level accreditation to be intended, the program would necessarily need to be identified by name.

    So, without being specific about a program, it would not be correct to say Harvard is not accredited. Harvard is most definitely accredited.

    Can anyone offer if there are any US unaccredited universities that carry recognized program accreditation?
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is backwards. If the school has any form of recognized, institutional accreditation, it is accredited. One, not all, makes that so.
     
  9. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I think that several specialized accreditors can serve as institutional accreditors of specialized institutions. In a few fields, this is the norm.

    Chiropractic colleges are accredited by the Council on Chiropractic Education (CCE). Acupuncture colleges are accredited by the Accrediting Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (ACAOM).

    It's not unusual for theological seminaries to not be RA but rather receive their instituional acceditation from the Association of Theological Schools (ATS). Few of the AARTS rabbinical and Talmudical schools are RA.

    As I understand it, the specialized accreditors that are Dept. of Education/CHEA recognized to do this kind of institutional accreditation have the capacity to evaluate stuff like institutional finances and governance that isn't directly instructionally related.
     
  10. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Harvard and Yale are not accredited.

    Toilets flush in the opposite direction in southern hemisphere.

    Proctor and Gamble are Satanic.

    A nuclear disaster will seap through the earth and reach China.

    If you keep making that face, it will get stuck like that.

    Yogi Berra "I never said half of the things I ever said."
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Yes,
    There is Flight Training Institute in California that has no Institutional Accreditation.
    They have ABET accredited Masters degree.
     
  12. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    As stated above, the National Flight Test Institute in California is has no regional or national accreditation. Its MS program in Flight Test Engineering has programmatic accreditation from ABET. But its MS in Flight Test and Evaluation has no accreditation at all.

    The University of California's Hastings College of the Law has no regional or national accreditation. Its JD program has programmatic accreditation from ABA. But its LLM program has no accreditation; ABA does not accredit LLM programs.

    There are a number of other "standalone" law schools that have no accreditation, other than programmatic accreditation from ABA.
     
  13. lchemist

    lchemist New Member

    This is true: Two toilets located in the antipodes of each other, will flush in the opposite direction.
     
  14. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    You seem to rehash the same law school argument from thread to thread. Have you actually attended one of these unaccredited law schools like Hastings? Apart from it being unaccredited, what can you tell me about its JD program? Can its graduates sit the California bar exam? If so, would they be permitted to practice law, if they pass?
     
  15. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Not true for small bodies of fluids. See this discussion from Penn State http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.html

    But sundial numbering is anti-clockwise in the southern hemisphere (I read somewhere that if clocks had been inventer in the Southern Hemisphere then clocks would be numbered anti-clockwise),
     
  16. major56

    major56 Active Member

    UC Hastings College of the Law is ABA approved and accredited by the Committee of Bar Examiners; thus its JD graduates can/do sit for the Bar Exam and upon passing can practice law. http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10115&id=5128#cals http://www.uchastings.edu/records/bar-info.html

    Additionally, Hastings is the college of law of the University of California which holds WASC accreditation, e.g., All UC campuses are accredited by California's regional accrediting agency, the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC). http://www.ucop.edu/acadinit/wasc/welcome.html
     
  17. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I suspect a part of the growth of this belief (based on mail from readers I used to get a lot of) stems from the time when Harvard's psychology department resigned its accreditation from the American Psychological Association -- not, of course, because it is a bad department, but because (as I recall) they chose not to meet certain curriculum requirements.

    And there are some jobs in psychology that require an APA-accredited degree.

    So the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" people can say things like, "Harvard is not accredited," and "I know a therapist who couldn't even qualify for a job with his Harvard doctorate."
     
  18. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Wow, I never thought of it that way :eek:. I guess it depends on your vantage point.
     
  19. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    "One of these unaccredited law schools"?

    Hastings isn't RA. But its JD program is accredited by the American Bar Association, which is a recognized accreditor.

    It's the oldest law school in California. It was founded in 1878 by act of the state legislature that established the school as an affiliate of the University of California, but governed by its own independent board of trustees. Of these, one seat is reserved by law for a descendent of the college's founder, with the Governor appointing the rest of the trustees, subject to approval by the state Senate. The Chief Justice of the California State Supreme Court presides.

    http://www.uchastings.edu/about/history/uc-centennial.html

    Certainly. That was the point of creating the school.

    Keep in mind, for purposes of California bar admissions, 'accredited' is defined by state code as either - (1) accreditation by the American Bar Association, or if that's lacking - (2) accreditation by the California Bar Association. If a school is neither ABA or Calbar accredited, then it's considered unaccredited for purposes of California bar admissions, no matter what other accreditations it might happen to have (RA, DETC or whatever). Being unaccredited in this specialized sense doesn't make bar admissions impossible, but it adds some hassles.

    Hastings College of Law is deemed accredited by the California Bar Examiners because of its ABA specialized accreditation.

    Of course. Hastings has produced more California judges than any other law school. It's considered rather prestigious in the California scheme of things.
     
  20. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Until today, the last post in this thread was by Bill Dayson on 05-21-04. The thread was excavated earlier today by a spammer (Pierce) whose posting has since been sent into the darkest corner of the Moderators forum. This has been a public service announcement.
     

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