The Math Behind Higher Pay at McDonald's - what do you think?

Agree to disagree...primarily because you're wrong.

 

Ooh. Ouch. As if.

 

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"As if"? Are you Alicia Silverstone circa 1995? You really burned me there, big guy.

 

There are none in Vegas which is a bit of a bummer.

 

I always thought she was a good actress and never got the credit she deserved. It is kind of funny she is mentioned in a McDonalds discussion since she is a vegan - Alicia Silverstone's Vegan Lifestyle - Oprah.com





Did I do well at derailing the bickering?

 

I think you did a fair job....until Rich makes another comment.

 

Hey I tried and I will gladly take "fair job"

 

Nonsense. There's nothing in my posts that violates the TOS, unlike another poster's personal attacks. That seems to be acceptable, however.

 

Pointing out how wrong you are isn't a personal attack, it's simply pointing out how wrong you are. I've never called you a name on these boards, I asked if you were a socialist or communist, but it's a valid question given the position you take on topics here. I know it's one or the other, just trying to determine which one. You, on the other hand, have called me a liar on the boards. It doesn't bother me, because frankly, I have next to zero respect for you and don't care about your opinions.

Do you have any idea how many PM's I get from forum members voicing their disdain for you when you and I get into our little bickering matches? On the previous Zimmerman thread I received six. I've received three today in regards to this thread.

One last thing, now I'm not saying you have taught at UVA and I'm not saying you haven't taught at UVA, I'm just saying I've never heard of an instructor at that institution having earned their graduate level credentials from National University and The Union Institute and University. Did you mean UVA-Wise? That would make more sense. Or maybe you led a training course to the custodial engineers in Charlottesville?

 

Chefs make 40 grand if they have a degree or certification and can run low food cost numbers. The median is where it is because a few bring in really big money, or are in the metro/city. Most make a bit less. For every food service establishment you see, that's 1 chef. Just one. Everyone else is qualifies for food stamps and will scratch and claw their way up to take his job. They'll work about 50-60 hours a week in a middle of the road place, more if it's fine dining. Most will NEVER have health insurance. Chefs have no job security. It is what it is. Culinary schools have WAITING LISTS. Hubby and I went to culinary school in the late 80's, we've had ample time to figure out how to make a living, and most of that time it was at minimum wage. I hate complainers. Live your life or change your life.

 

Remarkable.

 

This would be a short term effect-- that is, prices rise to catch up with the increased cost of doing business due to higher pay. It can take a few years, but it still happens.

Periods of continual wage inflation is one of the reasons this country is having trouble being competitive. It's one of the ways excess unionism hobbled progress.

(Education is also a factor, but that's a conversation for a whole 'nother thread.)

 

Disclaimer: I do not have an MBA or DBA or any business degree, but I did own a small business for many years with 20 employees.

If you take some or all of businesses' profit they will find a way to get that profit back. This could be getting more work out of employees, using more technology in the workplace or using other means. All of which could decrease the number of employees, decrease the number of new hires or both.

Rather then forcibly taking cash from businesses and the "wealthy" lets make conditions more favorable to encourage them to spend or invest their money. Increasing the minimum wage now on top of Obamacare and other government regulations will make businesses and the "wealthy" hold even tighter to their money.

 

But wages are not rising. They've been flat since the GWB years.

"Unionism" is a funny term, since only about 6% of private sector jobs are unionized.

 

There is a huge difference between macroeconomics and microeconomics. Several posters on this thread have conflated the two.

 

Who pays the salary of your local McD's employee? The Franchise owner or McD's corporate? If it's a local owner, won't that hurt a small business owner? You know those people we weep for when evil racist white evil corporations like Wal Mart put them out of business?

Also, who is spearheading these protests? Is it really a grass roots type deal?

 

Are we asking far more of fast-food businesses than we should, and is doing so hiding a bigger problem?

The biggest reason why this has become such an issue is that the majority of unskilled and OJT jobs, namely manufacturing work, have disappeared. Previously, someone with a high school diploma (or less) could get a job at the local factory and build a middle-class lifestyle for themselves and their families. Both sets of my grandparents did that.

At the same time, fast food jobs were ALWAYS low paying jobs, but were mainly done by kids (who were, in effect, being subsidized by their parents). Kids did it as a summer and/or part-time job while living with their parents.

Once the manufacturing sector shrunk due to technology and offshoring, these unskilled workers naturally gravitated toward the only unskilled jobs that were available, those in the service industry (e.g. fast-food).

OK, so we all knew this already. Here is the problem as I see it. We are essentially demanding that the fast-food industry pick up the slack from our disappearing manufacturing base, even though THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO with those manufacturing jobs disappearing. Suddenly, an industry whose business model is (in part) based on providing modest income to teenagers and young adults with no dependents is being told that they now have to provide wages at a level that supports a family of four in the middle class.

As a society, we are essentially trying to pass the buck. We are not addressing the fact that we may have TOO MANY unskilled workers. How we deal with it, I do not know. I have heard of different possible "solutions" from a massive job training program, expansion of public works projects, a basic income guarantee (I was surprised at the variety of people who supported this), to just doing nothing and letting it work itself out.