The Capitalist Meltdown

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by ebbwvale, Sep 20, 2008.

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  1. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    Why is it, with all the education, financial gurus, and economists, the world has had a meltdown of its capitalist infrastructure? Which one of the Ivy League Universities is going to claim that their graduates contributed to this state of affairs? Presumably, since the "big name "companies employ from the top tier universities for their senior positions then the top tier unis have to take some responsibility for the current failure of the capitalism. They are quick to claim the success of their graduates, who is going to own the failures?

    The globe has caught the virus and taxpayers everywhere have had to bail out the big end of town. The same crowd who dislike social security and tax payer support for the little person. Will this wash up at the doors of those institutions that supposedly are the "peak bodies" for preparation for business and economic management? Maybe there is a PHD on analysing which schools had their graduates in places that may have prevented the meltdown and why they didn't.
     
  2. Ronin Distance

    Ronin Distance Rojiura no Uchuu Shōnen

  3. Gin Ichimaru

    Gin Ichimaru New Member

    Its all because of who was elected in the last US Presidential elections. We have had years of deregulation in which Mortgage companies banks and industries have been allowed to do as they please. They could consolidate and bilk consumers. Regulatory agencies have been stacked with insiders who were often political hacks.

    Meantime working people say their real incomes go down and the safety nets which were established to protect working people everywhere were dismantled.

    Isnt it strange that the US is the only industrial democracy without universal health care?

    Also, the US has its army in Iraq and Afghanistan. Is this really the right time for tax cuts? Well the answer is simple: Sell the debt. Sell it to the Chinese, the Saudis, or anyone who will buy it. As long as the military-industrial complex gets rich who cares?

    As for the so called experts who run this economy, all I can say is that they are all in it for a quick buck. Corporate CEOs make their bread and then bail out in their golden parachutes. The think tanks are all staffed with people who quite honestly do not know what they are doing. But hey, they get a nice paycheck at the end of the month.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2008
  4. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    And isn't it funny that if someone needs a complicated life-saving medical procedure, the first choice is always to come to the United States?

    A few years back I hosted a police officer from the U.K. in my home while his daughter was receiving medical treatment at Massachusetts General Hospital. The only two places in the world where this treatment could be done were Boston and California.
     
  5. Gin Ichimaru

    Gin Ichimaru New Member

    US Medicine is first rate. But what good is medical care that you cannot afford?

    I happened to be visiting my sister-in-law in Denmark last year and she was amazed when I told her that some families in the US have to declare bankruptcy because they cannot afford medical procedures. I would add that this same woman now has a PhD in Communications from a Danish university and never had to pay a dime for it. She really laughed when I told her how much I spent to complete my education. Then she asked me seriously, "If US is really that much of democracy than why do people put up with this sort of thing?"

    I have to confess, I did not have an answer for her.
     
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    The ancient Greeks had a one-word answer: Hubris

    Wall Street (and Washington) are filled with people who think that they are smarter than everyone else. They have the prestige degrees to prove that they are. So it's a short and easy step from there to thinking that any decision they make must be a smart decision, simply because they made it. A sense of entitlement can reduce people's ability to accurately assess risk.

    It gets dangerous when you pour the gasoline of greed all over that smouldering hubris. Wall Street traders and corporate executives get richer than anyone else in this society (with the possible exception of movie stars). They make millions of dollars a year. They get $100 million severance packages. They live in estates in tony horse-country villages.

    When Wall Street starts to resemble a giant worldwide ponzi scheme, buying intangible 'investments' whose only value consists in the promise that you can later sell them to somebody else for even more, when everything is leveraged to the hilt on borrowed money, and when it's all built atop the fanciful foundation of speculative bubbles...

    It's little more than a house of cards, a disaster waiting to happen.
     
  7. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I like how you think! Welcome aboard!


    Abner :)
     
  8. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Hi - I have a question on a related topic. I'm thinking of reading this book

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/books/review/Joffe-t.html

    because it's on a topic that interests me and because it has been "well received." However, I don't really have the money (I know, I know, the library) and I certainly have lots of other things that I should be reading. I'm just wondering if anyone here has read this book and was it a good read, etc.
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Nice try.....you cannot be denied medical care in the US due to an inability to pay.

    If socialized health care is so wonderful, why don't the countries which have it also have first-rate medical care?
     
  10. Gin Ichimaru

    Gin Ichimaru New Member

    Well all nations in Europe have it. And I did travel to Denmark and was treated for asthma at a clinic. I was in and out within the hour.

    There is something else to point out, the US follows most of Europe and much of Asia when it comes to infant deaths.

    And maybe you cannot be denied medical care in most places but try waiting at a free clinic or at the County Hospital.
     
  11. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Where I work, the paramedics on the ambulance could treat you for asthma in less than 20 minutes, no hospital visit and no bill.

    If you want to have a heart transplant or complicated cancer treatment, feel free to go to Denmark or anywhere else in Europe. I'll stay right in the US, thanks.

    The ER at any large hospital usually has a wait; I can tell you from personal observation that includes some of the world's most prestigious in Boston like Mass General, Brigham & Women's, Beth Israel, etc. That's why there's a triage nurse to prioritize cases; if you need to see a physician right now, you're going to see a physician right now.
     
  12. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    There was speculative excess in the 1990's too. Remember the dot.com mania? Silicon Valley still hasn't fully recovered from the implosion of that Clinton-era house of cards. Greed and hubris are universal human traits, not political sin.

    I do think that your remark illustrates the problem of politicization.

    The best way to address problems is to address them dispassionately as engineers would, as technical challenges. (That's why we were so effective in World War II, making incredible strides in just 3 1/2 years after our national attention was focused.) We need to understand the nature of each problem, identify possible solutions, and then try to predict what the costs and implications of our solutions are.

    Only then should we turn to politics, identifying and supporting politicians whose positions are constructive.

    What we too often see instead is politics conducted as if it was an ancient holy war. The goal is to eliminate all opponents of one's chosen political party, unholy creatures of pure and irredeemable evil. Only then can the glorious Kingdom dawn.

    The result is that political parties come to resemble religious faiths, matters of total a-priori commitment. Technical policy questions receive answers that resemble religious dogma, oftentimes almost irrelevant to the problem itself and chosen instead to further party interests and doctrine.

    We see that happening with both the Democrats and Republicans in these latter days. Everything, every consideration, is being folded into politics and being turned into ammunition in the culture war, the total war, the Holy war.

    It's why I consider myself an Independent.
     
  13. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    The US is not alone in this. Other countries were buying into it as well. The greed and hubris was international. The top executives in companies around the world are responsible. These executives have had the best education available from so called top business schools, yet they could not see the flaws in the system which are now obvious to everyone. What value was their educational process? The same schools may have produced the graduates who manufactured the great depression as well.

    I often see discussions about top tier schools and their link with the top tier jobs. The top tier education did not work in this case. The same applies here in this country as well. I have no doubt that the US and the rest of us will work through this, but we shouldn't have to.

    The irony is that the very people who have resented government ownership have created the necessity for it. The buying up of companies with government money for the public good is hardly a capitalist solution. I might add that before this I was also hardly a socialist, but I now have to admit that government controls and interference are necessary, otherwise I won't have a retirement fund. The meltdown has put my retirement back a few years. A t least I have a job.
     
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The retirement lifestyle that has been developed in the latter part of the 20th Century in western Europe and in the United States may be an eroding dream of the past. If currencies collapse, then the entire planet's economic system will have to have a new interface of some sort -- and it probably won't include national currencies, at least not as we know them today. When you think of new currencies and commerce, "think global."
     
  15. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    Good points. I am often amazed at how many business students are brainwashed into thinking all the theories they are taught are the truth, and the one only truth. Sterile calculations in textbooks do not replace the considertion for humanistic needs in the world. Nearly non existant regulation has proven to be disastrous. And yes, I have never been a fan of Reaganomics. Thank god the W administration did not succeed in privitazing social security.

    Abner
     
  16. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator

    Denmark also has the highest income tax in the world. The country needs a way to fund entitlements like free college and universal health care.

    Personnally, I would not want to pay 63% income tax on an annual salary that exceeds the equivalent of $70K in U.S. dollars.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2008
  17. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    I wonder how much tax you will have to pay to bail out the companies? Governments cannot prop up companies without increasing taxes either. I am waiting for the next shoe to drop. In other words, how much do I pay? At the moment, I am paying in interest rates, but I figure the government has to get a share as well because of the bailouts.

    You may have to fund your own healthcare, education, and still pay more taxes because of the government bailouts. Socialism without any of the socalled benefits. Great!

    Prove me wrong and I will be very happy!
     
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Probably nothing more than I'm paying now, Chicken Little predictions aside.

    My investment portfolio (such as it is) took a beating the last week or so, but everything in life is cyclical and I'm actually buying more now while prices are lower. I don't plan on retiring anytime soon so I'm personally not really concerned about the stock market right now.
     
  19. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    I was, but apparently I was mistaken.
     
  20. ewillmon

    ewillmon New Member

    This thread sort of reminds me of the last Presidential election Bush v. Kerry. Remember all the Hollyweird celebrities who said they were going to leave the country if Bush was elected? I don't believe they followed through with that threat did they?

    If the US of A is so bad, why do so many people want to emigrate here every year?

    And by the way, there are those in Congress who are just as guilty in causing these fiscal problems as the President. Not that I'm an apologist for GW, I've been sadly disappointed in his Presidency. Whatever happened to conservatism?
     

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