Tesc(Thomas Edison) Lied To Me, My Degree Audit Was A Mistake!!!

Re: I think my last paragraph sums it well...

If that is the way you turn in your work I think your professors were generous in giving you the 2.whatever you have.

There's an expression [When people say I'm telling you this for your own good"; it rarely is.] Condescension and righteous indignation are usually more for the good of the speaker's ego and importance. Even if what comes out of their mouth is 'good advice.'

(I have made only the changes I noted in a cursory read of your post. If I were grading it I would have made you rewrite it.)

Not to be an arse, but you seem to be a bit of a whiner. Perhaps you should just say thanks.

 

Defense of TESC ????

I'm sorry that several of you have had stessful experiences at TESC. I've just completed my BA at TESC and will graduate in March 2005. My advisor was very enjoyable to work with and ended up encouraging me to take CLEP exams when I mentioned that I was thinking of taking online classes for some classes I had put off till the end of my degree (I have since taken and passed CLEP Freshman Comp and CLEP Western Civ. II for a total of 9 credits).
I don't speak for the school, but my understanding of the degree audit that you receive in the mail is that this is "unofficial" information regarding your status towards your degree and is not a guarantee of specific credits that will be given. On my first appointment with my advisor, he mentioned that he would try putting some information on the degree audit, but cautioned that it might be rejected (My area of study was Computer Science and he was concerned that the Data Networks class I had taken at Regis might be too CIS related).
I found TESC to be at least as easy to work with as 3 of the B&M schools I had attended in the past. To me, being picky about what they accept is not necessarily a detriment - it's a sign that I am not receiving my degree from a degree mill. You'll notice when you approach graduation that even though your degree audit shows you have completed all requirements, there is a final official review by the school to make sure that all of the requirments have been satisfied.

 

Degree Audits...

See, my degree audit warned that it is not a transcript, however I don't remember it saying that the info was unofficial and subject to change...

The thing is if I knew that I'd be more accepting. However, as I take my CLEPS and other exams, I just want a clear picture of what I need to do to get a degree.

Something similar happened at Penn State a few years ago, I took an advisor's advice one semester and took the courses she suggested and the next semester I find out from another advisor it was the wrong advice.

 

I cannot agree more. My audit said NOTHING about being subject to change. They told me what I needed to complete the degree BASED ON THE AUDIT. My advisor never saud anything either.

 

I'm beginning to think from mine and the experiences of others, it's the smaller, esp private schools that seem to be the most user friendly.

Not ALL my advisors are bad, but what ruffles my feathers the most when it comes to these schools and advisement is "One hand doesn't seem to know what the other hand is doing!"

I know for a face one of my degree audits is wrong but I'm not sure which one. I'll find out after the holidays I guess.

 

Seasons Greetings

Wish you all the best LJinPA and make sure you enjoy your new year. With every new year, the Chinese believe that new, positive vibes are resolute. If you can take a trip to another state across water, that is usually required to change your luck.

 

Degree Audit from TESC unofficial

One of my degree audits that I was sent from TESC states:

This is your personalized degree audit, an advising tool designed to assist you in planning for degree completion. The degree audit is not an official transcript, but an evolving review of credits appropriate to your degree. It remains your responsibility to satisfy all degree requirements as outlined in the Thomas Edison State College catalog. The degree audit outlines:
1) Requirements for your degree program
2) Transfer Course work and TESC equivalencies (if applicable)
3) TESC course work (currently enrolled and or in progress)
4) Planned courses
5) Your GPA for courses applied toward your degree. This is only used to determine academic standing.
6) Notes from TESC staff appear at the end of the report (if applicable)

I can appreciate the frustration that several of you have had trying to complete your degree, but placing too much criticism on the degree audit takes away some of the strength of your other criticism (imho). I would think your best course of action is to review what credits are missing and try to think why they are justified and then make the argument to the advisor why she should include them, if they do honestly meet your degree requirments (not too many junior college credits, etc...).
Best of luck to you LJinPA - it sounds like your are very close to your degree and hopefully your frustration will be over soon and it will have been well worth it.

 

TESC Grad/Proud Alum!

Seasons Greetings All!

I have a couple comments to make in regard to this "3-page" debacle of a thread:

1. LJinPA, I think that you wanted to try to put some clarity to your problem with TESC and you discussed what happened to you and how you felt about it. Many of us in this forum have gone through problems with schools before and this is a "safe place" to talk about things that occur in our endeavors to reach that pinnacle of higher education. Now, I don't agree with calling anyone a Bi***, but I know how it feels to get the run around and be treated as if "my case" is not the "most important in the world" right now. Because to you, your situation is what really matters to you!

2. I don't necessarily agree with the way Steve Levicoff aproaches things (or says things), but honestly he did make some good points in his posts. What you have to do...is overlook the things that don't matter (being referred to as a whiner) and look at the helpful things such as using a little diplomacy in your dealings with TESC. Calling TESC staff members "Arrogant," and inferring that they lie to students is a bad move! There are individuals who teach and work at TESC that I know who peruse this forum. People have long memories when they are told that they are "Bad!"

But really, you just wanted your case heard and wanted to vent. Now you have done so. I want you to now, contact TESC...respectfully discuss with them what problems you are having...tell the head of their customer service department that your advisor did not sit with you for a full session and that cost you time and effort...and find out why there is so much disparity in the different audits of your credit to determine which one is right. If you feel that you have not been given full consideration for what you think that you have....ask for an appeal; work the system they have in place. Believe me, if you're willing to stay the course TESC does not want you to walk away. Ask for a change in advisors. Finally, if you exhaust all of these measures...contact Mrs. Rosa Eickoff. She was the head of several departments that provided oversight of student degree audits, credit transfers, etc. I am not sure that she is still in that capacity, but she is up there and in my experience...she is always willing to stand over someone and make them do their job is she needs to!

In closing,

Back in 2001 (May of June maybe...the timeframe slips me)...I got an email from Steve Levicoff in regard to TESC Portfolio Assessment. It wasn't the most pleasant wording that I have ever read (not quite as harsh as his thoughts expressed to you in his first posting on this thread), however I took the advice from that...along with advice from a few others here and now I am beyond my Masters Degree and still working towards that PhD. Steve probably would not remember his comments, but I think personally that he reacts based on what he is given, and that's how all things in life should be.

Respectfully,

 

I agree about being diplomatic. I already said that a million times, but where people won't hear me out is that I WAS diplomatic to TESC and my first post was not meant for their ears(TESC's) I also realize my problem is hardly unique (people at B&M schools have similar issues), however I do have the right to be persistant, just as if I was overcharged at a store...

Mr. Levicoff was not careful in interpreting my first post and gave GREAT advice, but for the WRONG situation and to the wrong person. Also there are ways to give good advice tactfully & w/o being condescending. Otherwise even sound advice can be used for self-serving motives.

For people who know me personally I have had far more lectures in my life about me needing to be more ASSERTIVE than aboyt the opposite (being whiny and having to have things my way).

There was one guy who was nice, however he couldn't figure out what happened either but he'll look into it and I will see...

In the mean time, I plan on taking a few more CLEP/DANTES than they say I need and just send them all in to ensure that I have enough .

 

Last semester I watched a student here fail to graduate on time for no reason other than he took the program advise of an advisor. The semester before I saw that happen to two students. The one before it was another. Invariably the student says "but my advisor said all I needed to take was xyz" to which the registrar replies "but the catalog requirements state clearly...."

Every catalog/program guide I have ever read explains that meeting degree requirements is the responsibility of the student and not of the faculty. You have to follow the cat requirements or you don't graduate.

I personally think that the ability to navigate the academic system is an integral part of earning a degree. Some people just can't navigate the system -- they fail to earn a degree.

Now, the OP got a program audit from TESC that included x hours. He later received a program audit that included fewer hours. He is angry that some hours were reduced (as I would be) and wants the issue resolved. Because it is a holiday season in an academic environment, offices are closed and people are on vacation. He can't therefor satisfactorily resolve his concern. (as an aside - most university offices around the country are closed this week).

What we don't have here is any absolute factual report of why those hours were reduced from his audit. We have speculation - and reports of speculation from within TESC. We could speculate that it was a simple error that will be resolved when the proper people return from holiday. But, speculation will not resolve this issue -- there is only one course of action that will solve the problem. The student must contact the office responsible for having those hours reduced and learn why the reduction was made. He can then (and only then) proceed with corrective action whether that be an appeal of the decision or additional coursework.

IMHO - this is not an issue of poor customer service on the part of TESC but instead an issue of how an academic calendar works. It's a holiday, they're closed, you have to wait.

And I believe if you read the academic policy of any university, a "degree audit" is not a binding award of credit; a transcript is a binding award of credit. You will also find that universities can (and do) change degree requirements and while they generally "grandfather" students into changes -- they almost always have a disclaimer in their policy that allows them a way to enforce a program change immediately on all students. Bottom line point here is "yes, they can withdraw award of credit, they can withdraw a degree after it is awarded..."

 

Excellent post, Coach.* Your advice can and ought to be generalized: any student in any program simply must read the university catalogue/handbook/operating manual by whatever name. All of it.

John Bear has wisely pointed out that sometimes exceptions are made, but that exceptions are matters of privilege, not of right.

Elevating minor functionaries into oracles usually victimizes the elevator (sic). Knowing the boring paperwork really helps to avoid unpleasantnesses--including emotional uproar where either constructive change or respectful acceptance would be far more useful (and pleasant) for the student.

Again, thanks for a most useful post.

Janko Preotul



*I mean, you're no Dr Levicoff, but then a) who is? and b) we don't all have the spirit of prophecy.

 

I think I already admitted that my first post was rather impulsive and poorly worded...
HOWEVER (Mr Levicoff, Uncle Janko.............) Your relentless rampage of riteous indignation is getting ridiculous and FAR OUT OF PROPORTION. I think you all got your points across and this thread is tired.

I cannot undo my first post since on this board you cannot edit after 10 mins. The 4 pages of this thread were more about ME and my character and that was not the intention of the thread. WHO CARES about my character. I wish this thread will go away but it's not going to.

AND YES I did study the TESC catalog I can say harder that I studied for some of the teats I passed. But I already argued that point. I am patiently waiting for an answer and DO intend on giving their staff a FAIR chance and will give them the benefit of the doubt for now (esp since that ONE guy seemed willing to help).

As for now I am finished with this thread. Defending myself is only making me look bad and ruining my credibility which is some of youz want.

 

LJ, you may well have studied the TESC catalog but if you only look at two of your own previous posts and Coach's excellent reply you can easily get to the root of the problem.

You previously posted:

Subsequently, in a later post:

The root of the problem, and the cause of your initial upset was a misundertanding of the difference between an "audit" and a "transcript". Only a transcript is official, an audit is simply a guide and is subject to change. It doesn't have to say or "warn" that it isn't official, the notice that it isn't a transcript is sufficient IF the student undertands the difference. To warn that it's not an official transcript AND say it's subject to possible change is redundant. I think many here who replied understood that difference and may have taken it for granted that you did as well. But you didn't, and they may have misunderstood that you didn't recognize that difference That's not an assault on your character or anyone else's. People misunderstand things all the time, it's part of being human. So they clear up their misunderstanding and move on from a position of better clarity. It's no big deal, or doesn't have to be one.

You may be willing to give the advisors and staff a "fair chance", as you stated, but to be completely fair you must also acknowledge your own misunderstandings with regard to an audit vs. a transcript. There's no need to look at such an acknowledgement as any kind of 'defeat'. In contrast, if you approach the subject from that standpoint you will be pleasantly surprised just how much more advisors and staff are willing to lend support. That too is part of being human. People are always more willing to help, even go out of their way for, those who are willing to admit their mistakes and misundertandings. Admitting mistakes and misunderstandings is not in any way a weakness, it's a great strength.

Something else from that previous post:

It is a similar situation, but again the similarity is a misunderstanding. You can't take an advior's guidance as gospel any more than you can accept the guidelines of an audit as if it were an official transcript. As Coach pointed out, neither is carved in stone. You must always verify the information yourself. It can be frustrating, but it's just part of the learning process of critical thinking that everyone goes through in higher education. The sum of what you learn in college isn't only about the courses you complete. It's also about learning to question and verify, rather than just accepting everything at face value.

On a personal note, I fondly recall my first academic advisor. He was a fixture at the university, a plain-speaking and grizzled old fellow who was a Walter Matthau double in appearance and demeanor. He would spend time with each of his advisees and make his recommendations, but still ended every session with the advice that the student was responsible for verifying everything for themselves. He would add, "You don't have to, but if you don't then don't you dare come back to me whining that things didn't work out for you. The hand-holding ended in high school, this is college. You're on your own kid." It may sound a bit harsh to some, but all soon find out it's the absolute truth.

Kit

 

Um, LJ, I think it's about tuime you got over your persecution complex. You've admitted that you blew it in the first post - that's a good first step. Now go pick up some Adderall or Ritalin . . . (Never mind, that was a joke.)

Seriously, dude, you've got potential. And I encourage you to continue your education once the bachelor's degree is in hand - it's only after the fact that you begin to truly understand and master the process.

In the meantime, if you want this to end, stop posting responses to this thread. C'mon, sport, I dare ya . . .

 

Just saw this message on the previous page . . . A couple of brief comments:

First, while your post may not have been meant for TESC's ears, it's time for you to start considering your whole audience. Once you post anything, anywhere on the internet, it becomes a matter of public record that can bite you in the ass when you least expect it. No big whoop, but consider that in future posts.

Second, I prefer Steve - I use the doctoral title less than almost all other persons I know who hold a doctorate. But if you're gonna stick to surnames, get it right - I'm Dr. Levicoff. As you progress in your education - and I have all hopes that you will do so beyond the bachelor's degree, not because it's necessary but because it's fun once you master the game - learn the protocols. (I never intended to get a master's or doctorate, but ended up having so much fun once I got my act together that I just kept going.) But also no big whoop - I still prefer Steve.

Finally, don't be in such a rush to take additional CLEP and DANTES exams - they may not fit into your program except for the free electives area. Remember TESC's distribution requirements, and each and every time you pursue a course or exam, calculate where they'll fit in the big picture. You can have 120 that qualify as free electives at TESC, but unless you have enough to fall into the basic Humanities/Social Sciences/Natural Science & Math/Concentration areas, all the free electives in teh world won't do you any good. Dont bother taking anything that is unnecessary, nor anything that will bounce you above 120 credits. Your goal at this point is to focus your credits so that you get the degree, period.

 

Look, buddy, I was talking to Coach Turner, not to you or--incredible as it may seem--about you. His point was interesting. Please note the contrast.

I only have riteous indignation when I encounter bad liturgy.

Your character is beyond my reach and beyond my ken.

And how much harder you studied for some teats is really a private matter, sir.

 

Time for your spanking!

Not from you, wise a$$. You and "Dr." Levicoff are know it all, mean spirited, DL elitists and wanna-be academics.

This is the problem with distance education. It is obvious that you and Levi have been deprived of necessary face to face student interaction. Until DL students learn proper communication skills, you will always be considered third rate. And the real academics will continue to laugh at you.

You both could have given the original poster your honest opinion without insulting him, calling him names (piss-ant, etc) or discussing a medical problem he did not bring into this thread. You really make the DL community look bad.

Levicoff: You are not funny. Stop trying to be. My advice to you is get out from behind your PC screen and go interact with humans directly. Keep in mind, though, you won't be able to get away with that insulting behavior.

 

Well, that sure took care of me! I knew I shoulda voted for Nader. Dammit.

 

Belated thanks

My, my, where is my home training? I forgot to thank you for associating me with Steve Levicoff. While it's undeserved, it's one of the nicest compliments I've received and gives me an ideal toward which to strive. Thank you very much.

Janko the Mad Priest

 

To all, please be kind to fellow degreeinfo members. The link
below provides an example of an insulted degreeinfo member
reacting to an abusive posted reply.


http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=badday.mpg