Summer 2011: controversy facing trident university international

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Stu_Dent, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Double check your facts. Look at Dr Eveland's Linkedin profile "Up until now the idea of LinkedIn "recommendations" never seemed particularly helpful. However, since discovering myself now floating in the employment-pool-ether, they do. I hate to ask, but if anyone of my assorted contacts felt impelled to write at least a short"

    May 2012 – Present (2 months) Greater Los Angeles Area
    Currently between engagements - open to possibilities
    Recommend JD’s work at
  2. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Actually, both .com and .edu work for Yorktown University.
  3. edwardlynch

    edwardlynch New Member


    what options for instance? Thanks!
  4. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    I don't understand your suggestion that I double-check my facts as your follow-on information confirms what I said regarding Prof Eveland.

    I believe other long-serving faculty have also been fired. As someone is proposing to contact TUI and find out more information I suggested that they try to determine if they can who all the faculty were that have been fired.

    I believe all my facts are correct, but if you doubt them perhaps you could be more specific as to which you doubt or feel I need to check? Thanks.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2012
  5. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    I take your point and agree.
  6. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Rather then you double check your facts I should double check my glasses :pat:

    You said, "When checking I suggest you ask whether Prof. Eveland, Prof. Flaschner and Prof. Wenli Wang, all of whom were central to Trident University's doctoral program, are still employed there."

    I thought you said something like, "I checked and Prof. Eveland, Prof. Flaschner and Prof. Wenli Wang, all of whom were central to Trident University's doctoral program, are still employed there. "

    My apologies :puppy_dog_eyes:
  7. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    Re: feeling this way - am not sure to what you are referring. If you mean why I think TUI might be downgrading or terminating their doctoral program their doctoral program was labor intensive and effectively wasn't earning them a sufficient return, they have recently changed the way faculty are rewarded for teaching on the doctoral program to make teaching a doctoral student equivalent to teaching an undergraduate, and they have fired people who were central to ensuring the quality of the program. If you mean something else please clarify.

    Re: "More to come...", have you learned anything more that can give any of us further insight yet?
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    1. Change the Ph.D. to the DBA, EdD, etc.
    2. Automate the coursework using independent study, asynchronous online delivery, and secure testing.
    3. Leverage materials already created (textbooks, academic articles and the like).
    4. Give DETC a call.

    Just sayin'....
  9. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    1. How would that help?
    2. Aren't the first two already part of the TUI model and would't secure testing put students off? Certainly the fact that TUI does not use tests has been perceived as a benefit by students though perhaps for the wrong reasons?
    3. Are they not doing that already, or if not then what does "leverage" mean exactly, and how would that help?
    4. TUI is accredited by WASC.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2012
  10. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Rich seems to be suggesting that because Trident's WASC accreditation is on probationary status, they should try to get DETC accreditation as a backup. The part about changing the PhD programs into DBAs and EdDs is because the DETC only accredits professional doctorates (DBAs, EdDs, etc.) but not research doctorates (PhDs).
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2012
  11. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I took the points in Post #48 above to imply that TUI could further reduce the costs of its doctoral programs by switching from regional accreditation (WASC) to national accreditation (DETC).

    Which would make TUI doctoral degrees eligible for DETC accreditation. DETC is not authorized to accredit "research doctorates" (like the Ph.D), but does have authorization to accredit "professional doctorates" (like the DBA or EdD).

    Which would reduce the need for live faculty. DETC may have lower expectations than WASC in this regard.

    Which would reduce the need to produce original new teaching materials. Again, DETC may have lower expectations than WASC in this regard.

    By switching accreditors from RA to DETC, TUI could potentially reduce costs and be free of troublesome WASC hassles.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2012
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    In this case, the changes suggested might reduce costs, improve margins, and create a safe haven for accreditation.

    TUI got its accreditation through the back door, as longtime readers certainly know. I suspect WASC never appreciated having this thingy, formerly included in Touro College's accreditation at Middle States, left orphaned on their doorstep. So they honored the accreditation initially when TUI was cut loose by Touro. But things have been going downhill since then, as if WASC said "Sure, we'll accredit you initially, but then we're going to take a good look." So they did.
  13. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    My thanks to Rich Douglas and CalDog whose explanations have helped me make sense of the earlier suggestions. Thank you both.
  14. Stu_Dent

    Stu_Dent New Member

    Question: Would it be possible for an institution to be accredited by one agency, e.g. WASC, covering its undergraduate and Masters degrees, and be accredited by another agency e.g. DECT, for its doctoral DBA or EdD degree program?
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    I can't think of any real life examples of such a thing happening.
  16. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Both WASC and DETC are "institutional" accreditors, which means that their accreditation is expected to cover an entire institution. If a school is "WASC accredited", that is supposed to mean the whole school; you don't expect to find any exceptions.

    If TUI really wanted to have two separate forms of institutional accreditation, I suppose they could spin the doctoral programs off into a nominally separate school (call it something like "TUI Doctoral Institute") and get it DETC-accredited. So "TUI University" could continue to offer bachelor's and master's degrees under WASC accreditation, and "TUI Doctoral Institute" could offer DETC-accredited doctoral degrees.

    A few years ago, regionally accredited Kaplan University bought DETC-accredited Concord Law School. The Concord JDs were the only doctorates in the Kaplan system, so for a while Kaplan's doctorates were NA, while the rest of the school was RA. But that situation didn't last long; Kaplan sought and received approval to add Concord to the scope of its regional accreditation. So now all Kaplan programs are RA; the Concord part is currently RA + DETC, although it wouldn't be surprising if they drop the DETC part when it expires.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2012
  17. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    I could never imagine this happening with a regional accreditor.

    Trident could always try to spin off their doctorates into a separate school that could either move and seek accreditation from a more conducive regional, or rebadge them as non-Ph.D. professional doctorates and seek accreditation from DETC or ACICS.

    ETA: Yeah, what CalDog said. GMTA. :)
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    I don't think that ACICS accredits doctoral programs. Or have things changed recently?
  19. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Well, it does under a pilot program, though I see the scope of its recognition with the Department of Education currently only extends to master's, and "accreditation of a doctoral program by ACICS does not make the program eligible for purposes of participation in federal student aid programs." Standards for Doctoral Degree Programs (ACICS).

    I see 12 doctorates in its directory; DBAs, except for one PharmD (from a school that seems to be an applicant with the ACPE) and one Doctor of Computer Engineering.
  20. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    And when did they begin this pilot program?

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