Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Cyber, Sep 21, 2010.
When are you planning on getting final approval from SACS?
We already received SACS approval to offer the degree and begin the program. It's hard to say when we will get the final word on the particulars, but I am asking our Executive V.P. to push the issue.
So how soon can students begin to apply? It seems January 2011 term is the official target start date for classes.
I received word yesterday that students enrolled in the online program version will have the choice of doing their annual residency either on-campus or through synchronous web conferencing. The residency will take place within an annual professional conference.
Applications are being accepted now. Two courses are being offer during the fall quarter (which starts this week): Research Design & Analysis and Organizations & the External Environment.
What about the oral defense? Can that also be done through web conferencing?
Could you also break down the total expected cost of the program?
The oral defense can also be done through web conferencing. I believe that the total tuition (including comps and dissertation) for someone without any prior doctoral coursework would be around 50K, plus books and fees. The program is structured so that students going year round can complete their course work and exams in two years (and work on their dissertations during the third). The course work includes courses focusing on identifying and narrowing research topics (dissertation chapter 1), conducting the literature review (dissertation chapter 2) and selecting the research design, instrumentation and data analysis methods (dissertation chapter 3). Unlike many PhD programs, in which students take their courses and comprehensive exams and then are left to decide what they want to study for their dissertation, our students will have completed three of their five dissertation chapters and will be ready for data collection as soon as they complete their courses and exams. We see this as part of an anti-ABD strategy.
Hm... The price is right at that edge of being unaffordable/unreasonable but still tempting. I like the program design, as you've explained it. Do you need an MBA or MS in management to be accepted?
As a general question to everyone, would you say that Sullivan is regarded as having a better reputation than other for-profits like UoP, NCU, Capella, etc.?
I agree, the degree setup/design sounds very interesting. Instead of seeking a second masters/MBA with an IT/IS focus, I just might end up applying. I am not sure how realistic it is to apply for the fall 2010 which starts next week considering the time they need to process the admission logistics as well as make an admission decision.
In terms of reputation, Sullivan has a better reputation than the ones you mentioned. While we do not know how the new PhD in management will be received since there are no graduates yet, based off the other programs that Sullivan offers, I think the program will immediately become popular.
As a B & M school with a real campus, I'm afraid Sullivan ranks above all online-only schools. Spending $50k for a doctoral program is a serious business. It is important that an unquestionable degree is earned with such investment. Right now, degrees earned from online-only schools have questionable value.
I'd also say that because Sullivan doesn't have ubiquitous marketing campaigns like other for-profits its legitimacy is actually increased. (At least in my mind.) The risk is that they grow to become a UoP and your degree is devalued. Hopefully they stay relatively small with a strong focus on their B&M programs.
I'd like to see everything about the program in writing before I'd consider applying. If you need to take a bunch of coursework if you don't have an MBA, I am not going to bother.
Thanks for all the information. Very helpful. It sounds like a program designed for people who want to complete the degree.
I'd like to confirm the tuition. I think 90 credits times $700 equals $63,000 for the program and I understand there is an on-line course fee of $200/course. Is this correct?
One of the reasons that I was drawn to Sullivan, after 21 years in non-profit higher education, was that it does not operate like a Phoenix. It has been around for almost 50 years (far longer than Phoenix, Walden, Capella, NorthCentral, etc.) and its growth has been measured and managed (under 6,000 students, about 700 of which are in fully online programs). It does not provide programs without the ability to provide the full range of services to its students. It is family-owned, not a subsidiary of a large publicly-traded corporation. The Sullivans do not live in mansions, have private jets, or drive limos. That resonates with me.
Is this considered shilling?
The 90 units are quarter hours, not semester. 16 of the the 90 units are foundations courses, which may be transferred from the masters degree, so most will end up taking 74 units (60 units of courses, 2 units of comprehensive exams and 12 for dissertation). Some of our students have taken doctoral coursework at other institutions and we will transfer compatible coursework into the program. Yes, there is an on-line course fee.
This sounds great! Where were you in the fall of 2004? I think this is much better then the NCU "method".
In the fall of 2004, I was still new at Northeastern Illinois University in Chicago trying to convince people that one could use Blackboard for more than just housing syllabi and class readings. I wasn't to become acquainted with Sullivan until four years later.
One of our PhD students transferred from NCU. Apparently, the independent study model employed by NCU was not the right fit for him.
Any updates to this post? Any Sullivan doctoral students out there? I am seriously considering this program and would love to hear some feedback...
I believe I saw that you've applied. Were you accepted?
I'm currently in the inaugural cohort. I was attracted to it for a couple of reasons. I prefer the PhD to the DBA or DM or EdD, etc. PhD is recognizable by everyone. Second, their model is designed to take you from start to finish, unlike European programs that focus only on the dissertation. I suppose if you've got a lot of experience doing academic writing and truckloads of self-discipline and time, the research-only model would allow you to pursue the degree a different way. Courses cost $2800 tuition and $200 on-line fee each. There are two courses each quarter so $24,000/year for three years. My school pays most of it.
It is NOT EASY. Since it is focused on completing your dissertation, you begin doing academic research and writing the first week and there is no let up. The quarters mean you can take 8 courses a year and complete your coursework in two years. The dark side is that there is very little break between quarters to recover. You need to plan on spending significant time doing the work or you will not get the value. All that said, we are learning a lot and it is a good program.
Anthony can jump in but by my count we started with 11 and are down to 8 or 9 people. My belief is that this is so much more rigorous than the masters people had been that they were shocked by the work load and high expectations.
Incidentally, I discovered the program here. This forum is the best resource I know for discussions on on-line education.
As mgmtprof has stated, our program is delivered in a year-round 4 quarter format with two courses per quarter. This allows students to complete the coursework in two years and work on the dissertation during the third. Most students are transferring 16 quarter units of foundations into the program. The first year is 32 quarter units, the second is 30 and the third is 12, so the tuition is less the second year and significantly less the third year. It is pretty brutal, but we do our Doctor of Pharmacy in a similar way--the year-round four quarter calendar with very short breaks allows them to complete the four year program in three years. The model has proven to be very popular-our pharmacy school has three times more applicants than we have openings.
From those who applied for our inaugural PhD class, 11 were accepted and 9 did well enough in the first quarter to remain in the program. Due to the demands of the program, we thought it best to council two of the students that it would be best to reevaluate their enrollment in the program. It would be unfair to take money from students who would likely not be able to complete the program, so it is best to have students leave at the beginning of the program, rather than several courses into it. We have a goal of no ABDs, so we are limiting enrollment (the second PhD cohort is even smaller than the first).
I am grateful for the feedback that I received from our first cohort that allowed us to make some changes in our courses to make them stronger and to facilitate more rapid feedback from the instructors. We have an excellent group of PhD students.
Don't tell this to Dave - you would crush his little heart because you are not following his theoretical model of why for-profit schools offer Doctoral degrees.
Hi, Anthony. Thanks for all the info. Is that course load of two per quarter the norm for students who have full-time jobs and a busy family life? Or is that for the student who only works part-time and is single? Given that the quarter schedule is already shorter than the semester, isn't a load of two doctoral courses too heavy for non full-time students? How is the current cohort handling this issue? Sorry for the questions -- am just curious how busy working people do this, as the PhD is not a cakewalk!
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