Stealth H-1b increase for IT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stealth H-1b increase for IT

Rereading, the fault is all mine. You were clear.

I do agree that a fundamental flaw in the H1-B system is the fact that the worker is tied to the job. Therefore, an employer can pay a lower wage (though this technically isn't legal). Given a choice, I would rather simply give the foreign skilled worker a green card. The prevailing wage would still drop some (due to higher labor supplies), but their wouldn't be major differences between what a citizen earns and what a foreign resident earns.

I am under 40, but my last 8 years has been spent in companies with a wide distribution of ages. I am well aware of the discrimination that older IT workers face. I don't really have a solution to that problem, but I've seen too many cases of COBOL programmers failing to turn themselves into java programmers to think that the IT veteran should automatically be handed the java programming job (though I have seen some COBOL programmers who became excellent java programmers as well). Some of the IT labor shortage can be filled with IT veterans who have retrained. Some can't.

And in any case, if a H1-B directly replaces any citizen with equal skills, I would agree that there is a problem.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stealth H-1b increase for IT

That's your idea of being "pretty civil"? Sheesh, what are you like when you're in a bad mood?

 

As someone who has benefited from 2 H1-B visas as well as a L-1B (and now a green card holder), I think that there is another side to the "work IT jobs for less" argument.

When I came to the US 11 years ago from Canada, I was chosen because I had the necessary skills and knowledge - not because I was willing to work for pennies on the dollar. Of course, the position was in Salem, Oregon, not a traditional "first choice" location like Silicon Valley or NYC. I was offered another job, based upon my skills, and the new company had to go through the same hassle to look for local workers first before offering me the job.

Hopefully everyone will keep in mind that not every H1-B worker is Asian or Indian with poor communication skills. I know of many British, Australians and Canadians within my company who hold senior positions. They're here because we want the best, not the cheapest. It's easy to pick on the visible minorities, but they don't make up 100% of the visa applicants - I believe that Indian and Chinese workers make up around 55-60% - substantial, but not everyone.

No offense to any isolationist here, but given the amount of taxes I'm paying to the federal and state governments this year I'm doing more than my fair share...and I work hard for my money like any American does.

I also plan to become a citizen as soon as I become eligible - maybe then I'll become an isolationist too

Cheers,
Mark

 

Why? Not rhetoric, a serious question.

 

Well, if I choose to live in a country long-term I should have the same rights and responsibilities as any citizen.

Much as I love to complain about the incumbent government, I'm unable to do anything about it right now, and obviously I really don't have a voice (nor should I).

The laws these days also are more relaxed when it comes to dual-citizenship, so I'd probably maintain my Canadian citizenship even though I have no intent to reside in Canada again.

Cheers,
Mark

 

Well, if I choose to live in a country long-term I should have the same rights and responsibilities as any citizen.

Much as I love to complain about the incumbent government, I'm unable to do anything about it right now, and obviously I really don't have a voice (nor should I).

The laws these days also are more relaxed when it comes to dual-citizenship, so I'd probably maintain my Canadian citizenship even though I have no intent to reside in Canada again.

Cheers,
Mark

 

So, in the end the CEOs get the cheap labor. The Senate judiciary committee got the vote passed, with the stealth increase in H-1b's hidden inside other legislation...so as to not attract the voters to it. The Specter/Kennedy sellout of American workers is a travesty today. Here is the real travesty....only 40 of the 435 members of the House voted at all. They shut the voting down when they had the majority of the 40 sitting there.

40 votes out of 435. That should be illegal but Congress today can seemingly do whatever they want. Tom Davis-R, from Virginia is crying loud about it today saying that the bill was popular with CEO's, and that's about it. Popular for the foreign lobby, too.

The Specter proposal is to go back to the 1991 H-1 levels and recapture the unused visas from that point.

It's still not law yet and many are making calls to the Judiciary members to stand in opposition.

What the bill does in effect allow for the spouses of the H1 holders to even work. Effectually, that doubles the limit they are upping.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stealth H-1b increase for IT

Good point. I should have said "near zero or negative productivity" rather than "worthless". I should have also indicated that this is based on the pool of IT workers trained in 1997 through 2001. My experience from this time was that approximately 20% of these people had productivity that justified their salaries. Most shouldn't have been in IT at all. I suspect that the 2005 IT school graduate is far better on average than the 2001 graduate, simply based on the fact that fewer poorly qualified people are chasing dollars in IT.

But I stand by my original point that you can't simply grab a pool of the currently unemployed (even unemployed IT workers), train them in IT, and expect to get any reasonable performance out of more than a small fraction. Is that worth the attempt rather than importing workers? Maybe, but I'm not convinced.

 

I know, and it's something to consider. However, I would like to have the opportunity to vote, and if I'm partaking of the benefits here, I also shoulder some of the obligations (like jury duty). I'm not sure I agree with the whole global taxation thing, but if it's part of the package I'll have to accept it.

Ironically, last year I held Canadian citizenship, had my green card and still (technically) had Australian permanent residency as I had lived there for a period of time. Had things worked out differently it would have been possible for me to have dual Canadian/Australian citizenship and a green card in the US.

Cheers,
Mark

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stealth H-1b increase for IT

So, you would rather bring in college kids from Tata and train them up instead? I have seen that scenario played out over and over in the U.S. Not only in the U.S. but Canada, too. I was just up at one of our contractor's offices in Montreal. They are training the green cards there, too. Why not train American citizens?

 

Yeah. It's about cheap labor

Had lunch with a friend over at the VA today. He said, they had a lady from mainland China working there on an IU sponsored H-1b. She was making 44K. She just left for another job. They posted the job as a one year temp job at 69K yesterday...no benefits. In the past he said the job was 70K plus benefits. He believes this job will go for a visa holder because no one wants a temp paying that low here with no benefits. Ever see the cost of insurance? I will keep you posted on that job.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stealth H-1b increase for IT

That's true. Or at least give them (us) a variant of Irish working visa: temporary, but with rights to work for any company. Current system only benefits DHS and DOL burocrats and some employers.

 

Re: Yeah. It's about cheap labor

Cheapskates... but still, 44k at a university is a middle-class job and income. How much do you think a comparable position pays at Bangalore?

Some "unemployment"...

Seriously, H1B sucks. It is inevitable, having three different federal agencies overseeing the beast. But it is certainly not the root of all doom (overrated) for IT workers.

BTW, did anyone noticed what we are discussing here? An alleged draft of a proposed legislation. Or, more precisely, a piece of propaganda around this non-event.

 

Re: Re: Yeah. It's about cheap labor

"Proposed"? You see this as a problem? You seem to be a little unclear on the concept here. In a system of representative democracy, the best time for the public to influence legislation is BEFORE it passes.

As for "alleged draft", if the proposal isn't actually under serious consideration, then Senator Spector's office ought to be able to say so. That they decline to comment tends to make one think they have something to hide.

 

Re: Re: Re: Yeah. It's about cheap labor

"Influence" - yes. Derive grandiose claims from - no. Legislators propose all sorts of stupid laws all the time. This one is not even proposed yet.

As I made perfectly clear, I'm not inclined to beleive anything in the piece of "news" cited by thread starter. How do you know they even contacted senator's office?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah. It's about cheap labor

Stanislav,

You may not be familiar with how government in our country works. If something passes committee without people hot on it then it has a good chance of passing the House. But, the important one here is that it's being done without any communication...more imortantly it is being done with refusal to communicate it at this time by the Senators themselves.

Believe me, dude. I contact the Senators a heck of a lot. I'm on a first name basis with the immigration staffer in Evan Bayh's office. Even had one Letter to the Editor publishes and an Op-Ed on the topic.

I tell you what. Why don't you contact the Senators on the judicial committee yourself. Whew! For a guy that has not enough interest in doing research on it you sure write a lot about it. You might want to do some research to back your comments up.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah. It's about cheap labor

I well may not. I'm most probably not familiar with it, in fact. But I can spot propaganda piece. ONE half-truth is more than enough to identify propaganda.

Good for you. In fact, that's the part of the "American way" we should imitate. Did you have some other point?

Nah. It's not even my country yet. Our own politics is interesting and dramatic enough, thank you very much.

 

Just cheap labor and only cheap labor

This year, the government succumbed to pressure from the CEO crowd and opened up a new category to allow more Visas in here...20,000 to be exact. HOWEVER, this genius piece of legislation said that we had a shortage of computer and engineering people in the MS and PhD ranks.

Guess what? Those 20K Visas that were classified as "urgently needed" didn't fill up(and still isn't filling much). So, the industry's claim of "need" cannot be trusted. What does the industry want? Cheap labor. They are not interested in getting the best and the brightest in here(which is what H-1b is intended for). Just cheap labor, please.

Remember, for every H-1b they bring in that means less money going into the Social Security coffers for your retirement. If an American is hired in then they are paying Social Security. Sure, once the H-1b gets a green card some money MIGHT go to Social Security. It could be 6 years of non-paying SS, though. However, it won't be the case if Congress falls to the Indian lobby to have Social Security go back to India via a Totalization Agreement. Remember, Hillary is getting good money from TCS to be "the Senator from the Punjab" (http://www.punjabonline.com/servlet/community.discussions?Action=doDisplayTopic&Tier=0&Param=25514&Category=2 )

 

Re: Just cheap labor and only cheap labor

Good news. Thank you!
The fact that 20K visas didn't fill up might mean that US-educated scientists go back home. Or, fewer of us come to the U. S. Whatever you think is more desirable

I might be wrong, but AFAIK H1B is not about getting "the best and brightest". It is merely a "skilled worker visa". There is a special "genius" visa (O-1?) for best and brightest, as well as a corresponding cathegory of emigration visa (if I recall correctly, Priority Cathegory 1 "exceptional ability"). H1B is and always was about "filling the need".

That's just plain wrong. H1B workers DO pay SS. Without any hope of getting the money back, too (unless of course they get green card). Confused it with J1? Or just accepted another piece of propaganda on the face value?