Schiavo is dead...

TO THE ONE WHO PM'ED ME

Your box is full so I could not reply to tell you I have done as you requested.

 

Re: Re: Quite a Tirade!

Which I will soon change as I am now also a student of the Foley-Belsaw Institute of Locksmithing.

I always liked working with my hands and have not been able to work on cars for about the last 15 years so I thought this would be a nice sideline business when I retire from ministry and counseling.

Back to the thread subject. I heard today that Michael Shiavo waited until seven year's after Terri's hospitalization that she requested not to be placed on any type of life support. Interesting, I think.

 

Re: Re: Quite a Tirade!

Your tirades have worn thin Janko!

You can cast countless aspersions on me, I could care less. You have shown your true colors and several have noticed. You suddenly refer to me as the Young Master? If you do not respect me, I will certainly not respect you!

Good day Sir!

Abner

 

Re: Re: Re: Quite a Tirade!

I will send you a box of Kleenex, Uncle Janko, to help you recover from this devastating blow!

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Quite a Tirade!

Don't quit your day job Jimmy.

Abner

 

Indeed an interesting observation about Mr Schiavo's timing.
He tends to cloud the real bioethical issues involved.

Locksmithing is a good sideline for a preacher, Jimmy. I lost all my keys the other day and it was a huge hassle. Had to get to the airport to retrieve somebody and it really would have been helpful if I could have picked the lock and hotwired my own car. So I warmly encourage you in this line of study.

Oh. Yeah. Thanky for the hanky.

 

When I pastored in Michigan one of my colleagues, a retired Baptist, had a business as a locksmith and picture framer. He did very, very well.

 

May I inject just this one thing?

As what I believe would be fair to say a "fellow liberal;" and one who is quite often in agreement with things the two of you write (even if not, sometimes, the ways in which you write them) I'd like to suggest to you that what your words, above, suggest just goes too far...

...and can have a chilling effect on free speech -- a right in which I know the two of you believe, and one which I'm quite certain we all hold sacred.

Janko is a man of many interests and passions -- and creative ways of writing about them. Though we are both Lutherans, he is from a decidedly less liberal (or less progressive or whatever phrase you want to use to describe it) branch of Lutheranism than am I; so, as is to be expected, we disagree at a fundamental level on certain points which one or both of us, I'm sure, believe are pretty darned important. Yet I, over time, have come to know him -- at least as well as one can in a place like this, all things (including private messages) considered -- as a decent and honorable man whose heart is in the right place and who truly understands the nature of grace.

Occasionally, we all get into passionate, confrontational exchanges that sometimes make our blodd boil; but it is the mark of a good debater to be able to know precisely how much slung mud is too much; and it is the mark of a good debater who understands his obligations under the implied social contract to also bother, because it's the right thing to do, to make sure there's nothing heavy or sharp in the mud that is slung.

From what I know of the flavor of Lutheranism with which Janko is affiliated, no amount of "tattling" on him to his bishop -- or to anyone else there, for that matter -- would make one whit of difference, or do one bit of good. He'd have to be a member of a decidedly more conservative branch than he is for you or anyone else to get any meaningful mileage out of such cowardly tactics. So, as a practical matter, it's moot concern in Janko's case.

However, that you entertained the mere thought of it distresses me deeply. There are -- or at least there should be, in places like this -- some tactics that are just off-limits. After all, we're only talking about discourse, here. Although he exhibits a pro-life perspective, it's not like that guy's gonna' take that and add a shotgun to it and go out and blow a 4-inch hole through some abortion clinic doctor's midsection or something. It's just discourse, for godsake. And if it so happened that Janko did belong to a branch of Lutheranism that would take him to task for his public statements made in public forums, what kind of liberal or progressive would you be if you wanted his livelihood to be affected by it? It's just discourse. And if the free and open exchange of ideas, in the form of discourse, is not among the things that we liberals and/or progressives hold most dear, then what in godsname is it?

Please, fellas. I understand your frustration. Unlike you, however, I think I understand Janko's, too. But no matter who's right, taking it up several notches to the level of battle suggested by what you guys have written, above (and similar things that your words suggest have also been written elsewhere), would just be unconscionable... and I'm pretty sure that both of you know that.

Let me suggest something to you that I believe you'll find, over time, to be quite rewarding if you'll just give it a chance: Learn how to disagree with Janko without also disrespecting him -- or discounting the good work he does both here and elsewhere -- and I believe you'll discover discover both the true goodness in this man, as well as his ability to see the same in you.

Janko and I suffer from a similar affliction: Age... and the speed with which one can spot pure and unadulterated bullsh_t -- or the sudden and sometimes merciless impatience (that comes over us) with those espousing it -- that age and experience tends to bring with it. Age has this amazing way of teaching you what does and doesn't matter; and the inescapable experience that age brings with it tends to make more likely that you've heard the bullsh_t before. In his life, Janko's heard alot of bullsh_t from the likes of us -- most of it several times. When he rails against it -- or at least what he perceives is it -- with such passion as you've gotten but a mere taste of here, he's so quick to go to zero-tolerance mode because you're just the latest of many who he perceives to be whistling the same ol' tune. Instead of letting the debate digress into something it was both never about, nor should ever have been, give him something new under the sun to consider. Make a new argument; a better argument... and I promise you, you'll not find anyone who will consider it and, if it's got merit, concede it, faster than Janko. And that's honorable.

Do what you want, of course... but please tell me... please... that you agree that doing something as outrageous as reporting him to his bishop (which would do you no good in any case, but that's not the point, here) is not really what either of you would ever do; and that such words from you, above, were just blowin' smoke, like so many of us do -- me included -- when we're right in the thick of it and have run out of meaningful things to say.

Anyway... thanks, guys, for hearin' me out. I just thought I'd run those thoughts up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes. Keep up the good work. Fight the good fight. Just, please, always be fair: Your opponent will like you better, which often doesn't matter, I realize; but you'll like you better, too... which usually does.

Peace. Nil illegitimis carborundum.

 

Actually, I kinda suspect that Uncle's bishop is a little afraid of him...I know I would be!

Do Lutherans even HAVE bishops in the U.S.?

 

Talk about an opportunity for evangelism...

• Customer: "Thanks for gettin' me back into my house. How much do I owe ya'?"
  
  Jimmy: "Fifty bucks oughta' do it... but I'll tell ya' what I'll do for ya': I'll only charge twenty five if you'll promise to go to my church next Sunday... where, if you're conscience is uncomfortable with such a deal, you're free to deposit any part or all (or none, if you want... it's up to you) of the other twenty five bucks into the collection plate! Whatd'ya say?"

What? It could happen.

Ha! Good point. Me, too, I think... and rightly so, I would add.

Oh, you bet! Er... well... at least we have them in the ELCA. Actually, some of the smaller renegade spinoffs have abolished that construct -- one in particular that I'm thinking of that aspires to a more congregational way of doing things. But most of the larger Lutheran bodies all have bishops. In the ELCA (my particular branch of Lutheranism), each of the 65 synods has a bishop as its head. Here's more infomation.

 

Not a bad idea. Thanks!

 

Zogby: Americans Not in Favor of Starving Terri Schiavo

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=11131

 

Interesting.

 

Definitely.. especially in light of previous polls with opposite results. I am trying to locate some of those older polls so that I can compare the wording.