Schiavo is dead...

Amen. We all deserve the right to die with dignity. I certainly do not want a bunch of right-wing nutjobs prolonging the dying process, which is what they did to poor Mrs. Shiavo the past 15 years. Mrs. Shiavo was clinically dead 15 years ago. Since she was so young, she had not given thought to a living will or advance directive. I certainly hope the Pope has made his wishes clear so they don' prolong his agony.

 

Exactly!

well said Misty!


Abner

P.S. My thoughts and prayers are with the Pope, I saw him give a mass at Vatican city back in 1999. God bless him.

 

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With these few words of ignorance and arrogance you just obliterated the opportunity for an intelligent discussion.

 

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With all due respect Mr. Clifton, you should have posted my entire quote, not just that part that suits you.

Good evening sir,

Abner

 

Since a tech glitch prevented me from reporting your post as a TOS violation, Sensei Abner, I'll respond to it here.

Oh. I don't care to quote ANY of your post. I can see it quite well enough from here, and I shouldn't want to be accused of selective quotation by you, young man.

What in the hell do you know about clergy credentialing in Dr Clifton's religious tradition? Do you even know to what religious tradition and sect or denomination he belongs? Do you know if he serves a congregation or is in some other kind of religious work? Have you ever investigated his credentials? Do you even know how to investigate anybody's clergy--or any other--credentials? Have you tried to verify Dr Clifton's degrees (I have: the claims in his sig line are perfectly accurate and honestly represented)? Do you know if he has been in the ministry--if at all (I checked: he certainly is)--for two months, two years, twenty years, or a century? In short, what on earth do you know about Dr Clifton that entitles you to make the juvenile and insulting statement you made?






That's what I thought.

Grow up or shut up, Sensei Abner. You are so damn punctilious about your own title but you show no respect for others'. You can sing "Father knew Cesar Chavez" to the tune of "Lloyd George knew my father" (the hymn tune St. Gertrude by Sir Arthur Sullivan) until the cows come home, you reach satori, or attain to a modicum of common sense. I should hesitate to wager on which will happen first. You have injected your political fanaticism--itself in the worst of taste--into a thread dealing with what any humane person, regardless of views on the bioethical questions involved, will regard as a sad and somber event calling for a bit of dignity and circumspection. You need not try to justify yourself by pointing out that people on the "other side" have done the same. That's obvious. What may not be so obvious to you, young man, is that there are times when ALL fanatics and political hacks who abuse the civil hospitality of this board are on the "other side". This is one of those times. And you are on the wrong side.

Shame on you--you specifically.





*N.B. The above defence of Dr Clifton's clergy credentials should not be construed as an endorsement of the doctrine taught by himself or his denomination. Reg. Penna. Dept. of Agriculture.

 

Thank you for your post Uncle Janko.

It's very much appreciated.

 

Quite a Tirade!

That’s quite a tirade, Mr. Janko. Your comments seem to be seething with rage. Perhaps this is why you have referred to yourself as "Janko the Mad Priest"? You have no right to tell me to shut up, and I would never even think to say that to you.

I found your comments regarding Mr. Chavez quite offensive and disrespectful. Not very becoming of a man of the cloth. Not surprisingly, I have received PM's this morning from other members who thougth your comments are out of line and inapproriate.

Furthermore, I do not think Ms. Schiavo’s death is an occasion for joy. On the contrary, it makes me quite sad. None of the posters said or insinuated they were happy about Ms. Schiavo's death.

I can go on and on, but I won't. You will not bully me or anyone else into not expressing their opinions.

Good day Sir!

Abner

P.S. For the record, this young man is almost 40 years old.

 

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Aren't labourers meant to sleep in fields? They are labourers ... and if there were no labourers, then who would do the work?

All men are equal but some are more equal than others.

 

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Maybe he IS a Fundamentalist preacher - don't they condemn the other fellow, pick out the bits that suits them and twist the rest to get the interpretation they want?

Jimmy is Ok though ...

 

Abner:

You were and are dead wrong to even intimate in the tiniest of flimsiest circumstances, that YOU know what it takes for one "to be a man of the cloth."

You don't and any pretensions to the contrary, that you do, much more than anyone else here on these boards including real, actual, truthful "men of the cloth,", is plain balooney.

The honorable thing to do is to admit it, apologize to JC for your error, and move on.

As to your not apologizing for an error that too many of us routinely make in our mistaken presumptions about others (alas! we are all human) while you continue on to even harangue Uncle Janko for daring to call you out on this audacious pomposity and snobbery of yours - to wit: your statement "Not very becoming of a man of the cloth" - I have but only one word for it:

Shame!

Make your point without falsely assuming powers of discernment even the Pope does not have - the ability to tell from afar whether one is or should be "a man of the cloth." And please, do not ask of me whether I am "a man of the cloth or not." You should and do know, right?

Enough, please.

Thanks.

 

Re: Quite a Tirade!

Someone elsewhere the other day suggested that Janko's Bishop would be interested to read his posts here - in this instance I agree.

 

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Please don't forget that Chavez reresented Mexican migrant farm workers. People who had to leave Mexico to find work. People who voluntarily fled Mexico to find the freedom to work.

Chavez railed against the more capitalist and less bigoted United States that allowed the freedom to work and create jobs but not the more socialist and more bigoted Mexico that created the situation forcing the farm workers to flee.

Know what I mean?

 

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Hi Peter,

This particular situation I was speaking of was the grape and lettuce boycotts and strikes by the migrants. They slept in the fields and in the streets while Chavez slept in fancy hotels all along calling himself a man of the people as thousands of his people were arrested for violating anti-picketing injunctions, hundreds were beaten, dozens were shot, and two were murdered.

This is similar to the march on Washington when Ralph Abernathy also stayed in expensive hotels while the marchers from all over America slept in the streets being bullied by police, etc.

If you really want a hero for civil rights, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., is one. Minus his moral failings, at least he faced the enemies and didn't hide in hotels and motels while those supporting him were bullied by racist cops and politicians.

As I said earlier, I supported Chavez and the boycotts until the hypocrisy became evident. I don't like hypocrisy be it from those on the left or those on the right.

 

Re: Re: Quite a Tirade!

I don't honestly think Uncle Janko cares who reads his posts. He is a man who speaks his mind and whether one agrees with him or not, at least he is honest, consistent, and fair.

 

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First, thanks Peter.

Second, fundamentalists are not the only ones who pick and choose and twist Scripture. Evangelicals, Orthodox, Liberals, Humanists, Neo Orthodox, Neo Liberals, Conservatives, etc. all do this. Otherwise they'd all agree with one another, right?

Third, labels are meaningless. A fundamentalist is just someone who believes in the fundamentals of something. In this case, the fundamentals of the Bible. What's wrong with that?

We need to stop attacking people who use various descriptive labels and unite against fanatacism. It's fanatacism that ruins lives, not honestly applied labels.

 

You are entitled to your opinion

You are entitled to your opinion Sir. A very wise man once told me "I have never heard a wrong opinion.". I will certainly not apologize for stating my opinions.

And Good day to you Sir,

Abner

 

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Good post, decimon.

However, as I said earlier, I had no problem with the migrant workers. They were hard working people who were often mistreated and abused. I had great sympathy for them.

I have always supported workers' struggles and civil rights struggles. Again, it was the leaders of many of these movements who lived "high on the hog" while those they represented lived in squalor that I came to despise.

George Meany and Walter Reuther are two others. I used to really like Reuther until I learned how he (and Meany), who were champions for the "little man," were living in luxory wining and dining with the elite while the "little man" was barely making a living.

Contrast this to Samuel Gompers whose office was not much more than an 8x10 room in a shed and his son was the office boy. There was $160 in the union treasury.

Gompers said, it was "much work, little pay, and very little honor."
Now he was a real hero of the common man!

 

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I agree completely. What bothered me with this issue, as it does with the current issue regarding Mexicans fleeing Mexico, is that where is the origin of the problem goes ignored.

It should also be pointed out is that in the absence of low-cost farm labor, farmers would turn not to higher-coast farm labor but to mechanization of vegetable cultivation.

 

Re: Re: Quite a Tirade!

Thanks French, I must agree. Thanks for your kind words regarding migrant workers also, I appreciate it.

Take care,

Abner

 

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Just because the leader is in the wrong, doesn't make the whole movement wrong.