Rushmore MBA

Two of the faculty advisors did pass away. Crosby’s Quality/ Leadership materials are still recommended on the site. I’m not sure why there was a negative tone in your mentioning of that fact.

Philip Crosby
Philip Crosby was a Rushmore professor from October 1999 until his recent passing. He continues to impact Rushmore students through his 15 books, and The Quality College courses and self-study materials available through Philip Crosby Associates II, an Orlando based international quality management consulting firm that he founded.

I didn’t know Heyward, but here’s a little about him as well:

Putting faces to foes remains key to Mideast peace
PLANTING SEEDS: It might take decades for program to reap a harvest, but it sows hope.

BYLINE: Beverly Kelley; CLU professor

BODY:
The name Louis Heyward never became a household word, not even among the baby boomers who faithfully tuned into his animated "Winky Dink and You" each and every Saturday morning.

Initially airing in 1953 (and subsequently enjoying an extensive run in syndication) Heyward's brilliantly simple brainchild became an instant hit. Thousands of rabid "Winky Dink" fans mailed in 50 cents for a square of clear plastic that clung to the television screen, a 12-by-12-inch soft cloth, and five erasable crayons.EE

The "first interactive TV show" was laughably low-tech by today's standards. With "magic screen" in place, youngsters were summoned to help the intrepid cartoon character and his canine companion thwart the evil plans of a beefy villain named Harem Scarem. Say that Winky and Woofer were stuck on the wrong side of an untamed river. Vigilant viewers could quickly sketch in a sturdy bridge, a speedy watercraft or even an exotic hot air balloon. The only limits to the child-activated solution were the size of the screen and the inventiveness of the imagination. In looking back over a career spanning radio, television and film, the accomplishment of which Heyward was most proud had nothing to do with electronic media. During the last three years of his life, the octogenarian taught writing at Camp Kilpatrick -- a Los Angeles County Probation Department Facility -- as well as online at Internet-based Rushmore University. He was still trying to convince a pair of students -- one an adolescent Palestinian, the other an Israeli teen-ager -- to collaborate on a writing project, but he ran out of time.

 

Rich, this may be a little off topic, but I was wondering if you (or anyone else) could suggest a good training program for “trainers.” I enrolled my staff in a research training program and I noticed that the presenter was especially good (Nice voice inflection, respectful of time limitations, funny but not too funny, etc.). While I know many of these are “natural” qualities I’m curious if anyone knows of a course the covers the “Art” of training overall and not just basic presentation skills.

 

Training

FWIT: Drs. Mary & Peter Esseff's operation "Educational Systems of the Future" I believe was moved from Columbia, MD to somewhere in Florida. I completed their series on Competency Based Program Development way back in 1989. I had success using their concepts during a five year stint in program development for technical training. I did progam development for a variety of backgrounds from hourlies to salaried employees.

Regards,

Dick

 

Re: Training

Thanks for the tip. I’ll look them up.

Donald

 

Seems to me like it would be more appropriate to list deceased faculty under a different heading such as "Former Faculty" or similar.

 

You’re probably right, although both listings are in a different colored font and both state when the advisor passed away. Deke’s entry is actually at the very end of the list. Crosby’s is still in order (I’m guessing because his products are still listed as suggested reading/viewing. If I’m not mistaken, the consulting company he founded is still in existence.

 

Most trainers learn the "art" (skill) of classroom instruction from on-the-job training, corporate-sponsored training, or a combination of the two. It is less frequent to see people go to a third-party training organziation, but they do exist.

I would recommend anyone interested in finding "train-the-trainer" resources to check in with the American Society of Training and Development at www.astd.org. The largest training-related professional organization, ASTD is a good source for training materials, classes, and resources.

I'm not a big fan of "natural" qualities. I believe one's success as a trainer--or as a leader, for that matter--depends on behaviors that are learned and used. That said, practice and more practice can help make the presenter much more comfortable in the environment, allowing his/her other attributes (such as a sense of humor) to emerge. Still, there are limitations to this, just as there is with humor. Some people can't tell a joke.

 

It just occurred to me that degrees from many of California’s non-ABA approved law could be considered illegal under the Oregon’s law as well. Admittedly, this is a technicality since they wouldn’t be licensed to practice in Oregon anyway (unless licensed to practice before the federal circuit). Most of these schools are not truly accredited, but licensed by the state of California and registered with the committee of Bar Examiners of the State of California. (Which is different than recognition from the American Bar Association, Council of the Section of Legal Education- AKA Nationally Recognized Accreditation)

There are at least several dozen Attorneys, and a least a few muni judges that might be surprised to find that there degrees are worthless in OR.

Which brings me to a second thought. At least a few of these schools offer transfer relationships with RA approved LLM programs. However, if your Masters of Law degree was dependant on an “illegal” Juris Doctor, is the LLM still be legal in that jurisdiction?

I suppose it’s plausible to have a resume with that lists an LLM and No JD, but I think that might seem a bit to European for some.

 

Can you name even ONE?

I've been hearing this for a couple of years, and I've never talked to a single person who actually did this or seen a resume that listed a JD from a nonaccredited, California-state-approved law school followed by LLM from a regionally-accredited university.

 

Actually I can’t. I’ve worked in and around law for 10+ years and I only know a few people who have gone on to earn their LLM. It seems to be a more popular solution for those with foreign degrees (I know a couple of people from India who have gone this route as a path to the Bar). I was simply curious about the possible outcomes associated with this scenario.

 

Yes, it is an easy degree. For an MBA they ask for 30 credits when 60 credits or at least 45 credits is the standard for a good MBA. Their definition of a 3 credit course doesn't fit the standard either:

"How You Earn Credits
Every Rushmore course is three credits in length and requires a paper of about 5,000 words in length. Exceptions to these policies can be made with the permission of your advisor in cases where significantly more time is spent on a course than our normal guideline of 60 hours of research and writing, or when your paper is significantly longer or shorter than 5,000 words. No exams are required. Your grades are based on the paper you write for each course."

At a regular university you should spend between 100 and 120 hours of study and classes to get the 3 credits. So if you do the math, you end getting your MBA by spending one fourth of the time that you normally require at a "better" university. Plus it is not acceptable to get an MBA just by writting papers, how can you ask a student to write a paper without a course in research methodology?. To be honest, it seems to me the kind of place where you just take a book and make a report of it and get the three credits.

If you feel that you are really good with your MBA from rushmore, I would challenge you to take a CMC examination to see if you are capable of passing it. MBAs from good programs pass the exam without problems.

 

The LLM is usually taken by one who wishes to teach and is looking for a specialization. The biggest are in Taxation and Environmental Law.

As to the issue of a California attorney going to Oregon, it would be no different than my going to Oregon. While I am admitted to practice in the State of New York, The Federal Courts of the Second Circuit, The Court of International Trade and the US Supreme Court, I am not admitted in Oregon and cannot represent myself as an attorney in that jurisdiction. I can certainly say that I am an attorney in New York just as the attorney from California can make that statement. Further, in certain instances I can request admission in order to handle a single matter in Oregon. It is an application for admission "Pro Hac Vice" and only requires that one be an admitted attorney in another jurisdiction.

As I view the Oregon situation, it is not one of saying that you have a degree, it is in attempting to use that degree within the confines of that state to meet qualifications for a particular license or for obtaining a position. Without looking at the matter in greater depth, it would appear that this is covered under the police powers of the individual state. Oregon is saying that you cannot use certain credentials to meet job or licensing requirements within that jurisdiction. New York, Ohio, Michigan, etc. etc. do exactly the same when they require graduation from an ABA law school for admission.

Wes

 

I realize I may have misunderstood the question. If you mean programs, Saratoga claims to have these transfer relationships in place with several Accredited Schools (though admittedly, I don’t know anyone who has gone this route). I’m not familiar enough with their program to know which schools they’re discussing.

 

Sorry Wes, My reply showed up in the middle of your quote.

 

I believe it’s 36 units, but I’m splitting hairs.

The students are given a rudimentary overview in research as part of the foundation program and the school provides access to a surprisingly good ebrary.

From the site:

“BUS 1001 is also designed to improve your research and writing skills…

...Along the way your foundation course advisor will teach you step-by-step how to do the research and writing necessary to complete your program. This will include learning to search databases and the web, and an introduction to quantitative and qualitative methods of research.”

In my previous post you’ll see that I’m in favor of more structured curriculum for some subjects. I also agree that the curriculum is defiantly not the same as what’s currently taught at most business schools. That’s the point of the program (see the articles on the relevancy of MBA curriculum). When I talk to people about “how” I’m earning my MBA I’m very upfront about it being a non traditional, one year research based program that has very little to do with what’s taught in traditional B school. For me this is simply an opportunity for me do some guided research in my field based on principals taught in business school.

Time per unit- If you’re talking classroom based I education, I will agree with you 100%. You will definitely spend much more time in a Brick and Mortar based program. Most of my arguments have been against the “superiority” claimed by other distance learning programs, here and elsewhere. As you say, “at a regular university you should spend between 100 and 120 hours of study and classes to get the 3 credits.” However, many of the DL programs touted as being accredited or recognized require little or no classroom time. I know that’s not the case with all the programs, but for several the student basically needs to spend enough time studying to pass the exam. No more, no less. This may be an effective learning method for many people. I personally would retain very little in that setting.

For my own program, I include the Standard MBA text as well as a minimum of four other books for each course. For example, as part of my QA studies, I’ve included “Quantitative Analysis for Management” (Boni 9th) as well as case studies form Harvard Business school press and a couple dozen articles from relevant journals. My papers will be geared toward specific studies in my field and are definitely not going to be in a book report format. I’ve already spent close to 70 hours on my first paper, and it will likely be closer to 150 hours when I’m done. I personally don’t think your going to get a well written paper in 60 hours, but they’re not my time estimates. I plan to use my research in a larger personal project later, so it could be that I’m spending more time than the average student gathering research, interviewing, etc. If I could get something done in 60 hours, I might feel as though I’m getting something accomplished

You’re likely to see less of me on these boards in the near future simply because I’m starting to spend far too much time here. It’s not that I don’t enjoy the stimulating conversation – I’m just not getting anything done. . I’ll still check in from time to time.

I do want to tip my hat to everyone I’ve encountered so far. One of my past businesses was related to online community development (custom webboard servers) and I spent many a night arguing with people who acted less than professionally. It’s nice to stumble into a community where adults can debate without the discussion deteriorating to sub-civil levels.

 

Apologies to the board members - Please ignore earlier (mangled) post back to Wes. I inadvertently pasted my reply within the quote.

Good points Wes, though I wasn’t talking about a temporary Pro Hac Vice appearance. I’m thinking more of the attorney that decides to retire, moves to Oregon, and decides to apply for a legal studies teaching position at the local JC. I understand that there’s a prohibition against practicing in Oregon without being admitted to the Oregon Bar; that’s a given. However; if I read the statute correctly, it would be illegal for this person to list their degree for any position (legal or non legal) within the state- even if he or she had been a licensed attorney while living in California. I simply find it interesting that legally, this person could work as a Judge in California, but could be fined for listing the degree on a Burger King application in Oregon.

BTW: For those outside the state, this isn’t a far fetched scenario. The current legal market is in a nation wide slump, and Oregon is a popular destination for those looking to escape the Silicon Valley rat race. I’m not sure how many licensed attorneys from non ABA approved schools there are in California, but I’m guessing outside this board, there aren’t many who even realize that their degrees could be considered worthless just a few short hours from here.

 

withdrawing

After a day or two of Soul searching I’ve decided to withdraw from my Rushmore MBA program. While I still believe that there is room for innovation in MBA education, I’m more concerned that the caliber of work I produce in the program will never matter.

I work far too hard to spend my time defending my education. So, I guess it’s time for me to sharpen my number two pencils, dust off the bubble test, and surgically reinstall the conformist chip in back of my head.

 

Smart thinking

A smart move that you'll NEVER regret.

Good luck with your selection and further studies.

 

Just for the record, to qualify for admission to the Oregon State Bar, an applicant must (1) have a J.D. from a school approved by the ABA, **OR** (2) have a J.D. from a U.S. law school, been admitted to practice before the highest tribunal of another jurisdiction, and have been continuously engaged in the practice of law for the last 3 out of 5 years immediately preceding the administration of the bar exam. Note that in the latter instance, it appears that a J.D. from an ABA-approved school is not required.

Michigan requires a J.D. from a U.S. law school that is considered, by the State Board of Law Examiners, to be "reputable and qualified" for admission. A non ABA-approved school can request that the Board approve the school as "reputable and qualified".

Regarding an LL.M. from an ABA-approved school, St. Thomas will accept (and has accepted) students without a J.D. from any law school (ABA-approved or not) into the two LL.M. programs they offer.

Regarding the ODA rules, I think they should look at disclosure rather than a 'claim to possess'. After all, how is the public harmed when a statement such as "MBA, Buttafuoco Business School (neither accredited nor recognized by any state, regional, or national accrediting agency)" is made?