Religious Exemption Proposal

I think the idea of religious exemption is reasonable and has been tested in court. What I would like to see is at least minimal requirements to demonstrate that you have faculty at the level and capable of instructing at the degree level you are offering and in the field offered. Also, that the curriculum is at minimum equivalency for that level degree. Would not need to be in-depth but some standard of consumer protection.

The above doesn't interfere with religious practice anymore than requiring you to have a driver's license or a fire inspection for your religious facility.

 

Okay, so maybe I am just tired but is your posting about religious exemptions or your desire to have qualified faculty teaching at the undergraduate and graduate levels?

 

Religious Exemption and minimum standards for granting it versus no standards. It varies from state to state. Some won't allow secular degree titles so they have to be adjusted and others just exempt schools. I believe some states require an identifier when graduates use their degrees. I don't have a problem with the general concept but there should be some standards for being exempt that offer consumer protection.

 

That is a difficult proposition since what constitutes capability and equivalency is, at least in part, going to be an evaluation of something inherently theological.

 

Maybe it's because I'm an atheist - but I wasn't always. I don't think this should be a problem. No blanket exemptions. Let the standards be set by those qualified - people with advanced degrees in Theology - from institutions well-qualified to award them - i.e. top-level accreditation or equivalent. This is about educational standards - focusing on those in Theology - not differing denominational beliefs. You can and should legislate standards. It's not an issue like interdenominational differences in beliefs.

In Canada, any religious organization can issue all the certificates and diplomas it wants. I even earned some myself, before my, um... "conversion" to Godless Heathendom. Degrees are the sole province of qualified institutions. We have some fine accredited religious schools here that award meaningful degrees, We have other religious schools - that award certificates and diplomas, but are not allowed to award degrees because they have chosen not to fulfil the requirements for degree-granting. It works...

 

Perhaps that is a solution. Have a two-tiered exemption process:

Tier one allows religious schools to apply for exemption and prove to some minimal level that they have the faculty and curriculum that mirrors accredited schools (number of hours, texts at an appropriate level). They then are allowed to issue degrees with academic titles.

Tier 2 is an exemption that allows schools to operate and call themselves whatever they like (seminary, college, etc) but only to issue your certificates and diplomas.

 

Other than health, safety, and welfare issues, the government has no business interfering in anything religious.

 

Isn’t the system that you are describing basically accreditation but with limits on what types of certificates non-accredited schools can offer?

A religiously oriented school like Liberty University has to establish at a minimal level (to the satisfaction of their accredited) that they are competent to supervise their institution and degree programs and that the faculty have education and experience sufficient to teach those programs.

A religiously oriented school which does not wish to meet minimum standards as high as Liberty can pursue accreditation through another agency or through no agency at all.

Personally, I have no issue with a religiously oriented institution offering degrees (associates, bachelor, master, doctor, super-doctor, whatever). Our system shifts the burden a bit to the potential employer (or other person evaluating the educational credentials of an individual), requiring them to verify what type of accreditation, if any, an institution has, but that isn’t fantastically burdensome.

Isn’t it easy enough to view a degree from an institution that is not accredited by a Dept of Education recognized accreditor as “not a degree”, at least to the extent that you cannot easily be certain as to the minimum standards to which the granting institution adheres?

 

It would be less than accreditation but ensuring some minimal standards. I am not as familiar with the California Approved categories that existed but perhaps something like that. None of that impacts what is taught (example brand of theology).

Does the State have a vested interest and authority of some kind over education and what operates as a higher education institution and issues academic degrees in their State. Can that be fulfilled without infringing on religious freedom but protecting some minimum levels of quality and meaning (of a PhD in Marketing for example).

 

It works so that people aren't hoodwinked out of money for worthless degrees. We don't really have much of a "mill" problem here - religious or secular. It works so that people who want to earn religious degrees, earn degrees that meet good standards - not trash. There's a fine school about six or seven miles from my door - Redeemer University. There are quite a few others.

And yeah, if it costs the kind of money education mostly does - I'm fine with the State flexing its muscles. It seems in the US, control is sporadic when it comes to controlling nonsense degrees in the guise of religion.

I remember a stellar example - a Texas RA Uni a few years ago that wanted to offer a Master's in Creation Science. The Accreditor swooped in and said basically - No - this is NOT Science, so forget it, if you want to keep your accreditation. So all the "Earth-is-only-6000-years-old"Pseudoscience courses were turfed. Don't mess with Texas! I think this is needed in the 22 States that have "religious exemptions" and sometimes "MBAs in Church Management or MA's in Spiritual Counselling and whatnot. There are some real villains in that kind of business. I think that a lot of DI members have no idea how bad some of these schools are and how much money gets sucked out in exchange for "degrees" that really aren't.

At the low end, we have what I consider "novelty" degrees, like those of the Universal Life Church. It's pretty hard to spend over $100 for a qualification there. I believe for around that, you can get a "Doctor of the Universe degree!" OK, if that's your thing... Last I looked you could be ULC-certified as a Jedi Knight for TEN BUCKS! I have no objection to this -- but when the same laws let "schools" sell worthless credentials for thousands of dollars - Hell yeah, I object. They sure can't do it where I live. That's what I mean when I say "it works."

I'm not saying con artists in Canada don't make a lot of money from people under the guise of religion - they do. But they can't do it via "My little Phony" degrees. That one avenue is closed to them.

 

Maybe no religious organization should mess with government business, which in many countries includes giving schools degree-granting authority. As you may have guessed by now, I LIKE THAT!

 

We got it from the Babylonians. NiBiRu is supposed to be a "rogue planet." There was a group that said it would crash into Earth in 1995. Didn't happen. It's also featured in a Video game. NiBiRu - Age of Secrets. I guess Steve F. has a direct line to NiBiRu. Wow! Who knew?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_(Babylonian_astronomy)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NiBiRu:_Age_of_Secrets

 

There was a time when it was necessary to have a physical presence in order to operate a diploma mill. You had to run a printing press, mail out materials, and receive funds, to name a few functions. That meant you had to evade the authorities. Back then, the three main methods were to (a) operate in a state that had little or no oversight on higher education, (b) get a "religious exemption" from the law, or (c) operate from a location outside the clutches of law enforcement. Thus, there were a ton of diploma mills pretending to be in category (b), religious schools. On top of that were the slew of unaccredited bible schools operating blatantly, but at least were actually part of someone's religion--if not a legitimate degree-granting school.

The internet blew all of that away. Of the old-school challenges in operating a diploma mill, the only one remaining is sending out the fake diplomas, transcripts, and letters of recommendation. But that one isn't too hard to do if you're able to mail-drop them at your local post office. (Preferably from many different ones.)

Technology can sometimes be less-than-fun.

 

I think the issue is that many of these schools try to make not having "government accreditation" a badge of honor and tout non governmental accreditation AND approval by the state to issue degrees (in some cases PhDs). Of course it is under exemption (but we're authorized to issue degrees under Statute XYZ sounds good). That argument is the exact one I saw someone recently making, that his school did not have governmental accreditation but most certainly did have accreditation and was accredited (in his mind it was....plus the State authorized the degree). He is out money but so are others ill informed and taken advantage of by schools.

Certainly not every school needs accreditation but if they are issuing man made titles (academic degrees) they ought to meet a minimal standard of quality or equivalence (rather than issue degrees with man-made titles like PhD and hiding behind exemption and Jesus don't need no accreditation to run sub sub standard schools).

 

I understand. My objection to such a construal is that your comment seems to presuppose that theology is somehow neutral and altogether distinct from what you described as "denominational beliefs." The problem, however, is that theological neutrality is illusory and denominational beliefs (i.e., doctrines) are indistinguishable from theology. Rather, my suggestion is that the churches be required to regulate (e.g., approve, endorse) Bible colleges and seminaries. This would avoid gov't regulation of an inherently theological set of issues and would place responsibility for recognition in the hands of actual denominations/churches. By way of example, I once worked for an unaccredited seminary that held the approval of two very large denominations. This benefited the institution since it signaled the school's theological commitments. Simultaneously, it served as a sort of (to borrow a term) accreditation for those who desired to serve in those communions.

 

No, no. I was lamenting the "good old days" when finding, chasing, and exposing diploma mills was fun. High-tech has taken all of that away. Now, even if you could crush them all with one blow, they'd all be replaced 6 months later. And there are no more charming charlatans to uncover. Just one url after another.