Regional Accredited Degree in 4 Weeks

You guys just don't understand the word "voluntary" do you? Besides, Dave, if all you are going to do is quote Rich you don't add much to the discussion.

 

I can't recall anyone on Degreeinfo ever saying that there are no good non-accredited schools.

In fact, I've personally done more to defend what I consider good non-accredited schools on this board than you ever have.

There's no reason to assume that a school is legitimate unless there's reason to assume that it is legitimate.

If you want to play logic with us, try to slip out of that one.

So while there obviously might be legitimate non-accredited schools out there, there isn't any reason to assume that any particular non-accredited school is legitimate until somebody actually does the work of presenting a credible case in its behalf.

That's your task, if you are going to be our new champion of non-accredited schools. You need to stop dancing around in circles, making empty incoherent assertions and fighting with straw men.

You need to provide real specific examples of non-accredited schools that you consider legitimate, and then you need to convince us to join with you in considering them legitimate.

 

There have been several people who have said, in so many words, that only accreditation makes a school legitimate. That has been an unmistakable message.

I am not competing with you or anyone on this board for anything so I am not sure what you are getting defensive about. You can be the champion defender. It doesn't matter to me.

Personally, I think there are more than just a couple of legitimate unaccredited schools (maybe some religious ones) that can provide an excellent education. I will get you the name of another one.

 

Who has said that only accreditation makes a school legitimate? No one, nope, incorrect, another strawman, you've been corrected on this a number of times. You just rephrase and repeat the same nonsense.

There are very few legitimate perpetually unaccredited general education distance learning schools. The number seems to be getting smaller not larger. This statement is different from what you keep trying to twist it into and then attack. If you really want to argue against this statement then you could do what you're saying that you're going to do (only the religious angle is out, that's not general education), list some legitimate perpetually unaccredited general education distance learning schools. I can promise you that it will be far easier to get huge lists of degree mills.

 

I don't recall anyone on Degreeinfo ever saying that and I don't believe that it's the general opinion on this board.

You told us that:

"My logic is this simple: You tell me all sheep are white. The point and time that I find a black sheep, your statement is false."

Well, I'm the counter-example (one among many) that proves that your caricature of Degreeinfo is false. (Using your own logical principle.)

If you hope to have any success in pursuading intelligent people to agree with you, you can't just demand that everyone accept non-accredited schools in general as legitimate, sight unseen.

You will have to specify which non-accredited schools you approve of, and then you will have to explain in detail why you find those particular schools credible.

I've asked you repeatedly how, in the absence of accreditation, people can distinguish between legitimate schools and mills. That question hasn't gone away. The possibility of it being successfully answered is presupposed by the whole idea of defending non-accredited schools.

 

quote:
posted by russ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as there is one good unaccredited college or university out there or "exceptions to the rule" as you state it, I will fight for their right to never be accredited and still be considered legitimate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Folks, we have a champion of unaccredited schools right here so let us get to work to see exactly to what lengths he would go to champion their case:

- Will Russ endeavor to state here categorically that he does not, has not, and will not ever use the services of a dentist or physician who graduated from an accredited school in favor of one who graduated from a "legitimate" unaccredited school? If so, please name the school in question and provide verifiable proof that you will use his/her services and none other.

- Will Russ put his money where his mouth is and definitely forswear that he does, not, has not, and will not ever use the services of an attorney or financial advisor who graduated from an accredited law school or business school in favor of one who graduated from a "legitimate" unaccredited school? If so, please name the school in question and provide verifiable proof that you will use his/her services and none other.

- Will Russ forever shut up the very vocal champions of accreditation by providing proof that he does not, has not, and will not ever use the services of educators, teachers, professors and researchers who graduated from accredited school by certifying for us that has in the past obtained and will forever in the future obtain all of his every education and relevant training from persons who only graduated from "legitimate" unaccredited schools? If so, please name the schools in question and provide verifiable proof that you have used them in toto.

- Will Russ forever obtain our undiminished respect by letting us know here and now that, as a champion of legitimate unaccredited schools, he will encourages all persons of good will to forever eschew attendance at any accredited school and instead attend the "legitimate" unaccredited schools?

- Will Russ please step forward and declare for all and sundry that obtaining an education from accredited schools is, relatively speaking, of not as much worth, relevance, value or quality as is obtaining such from "legitimate" unaccredited schools? If so, please provide a starter list of all such relatively not-as-worthy accredited schools and a starter list of all such relatively more worthy unaccredited schools in question (without even coming close to using or duplicating the philosophy and intent behind what the Oregon ODA, the States of Michigan, Indiana and others have attempted or are attempting to do)?

- Will Russ, our newly-minted champion of unaccredited schools (but not of diploma mills) please lay out for us in clear and unambiguously stark terms, without resorting to any mechanism or process that smacks remotely of accreditation or objective, quality assessment processes, the cogent differences between diploma mills and "legitimate" unaccredited schools, one that will stand the test of reasonableness, common-sense, rationality and logic?

- Will Russ immediately begin a campaign to educate the principals, owners, administrators, investors and backers of all currently unaccredited schools and businesses that are working hard to seek accreditation and widespread acceptance to forego their efforts because it is useless, not well thought out, and harmful to the very fabric of society?

No more twisted logic, brow-beating, self-designated champion labels, or "big talk," please!

No more setting up argumentative strawmen and grassywomen that take up so much energy on your (Russ's) part to knock down.

You have work to do. Provide us your credible evidence - and logically sound reasons - for observers here and elsewhere to see that you are only championing "legitimate" unaccredited schools and not diploma mills, questionable businesses masquerading as universities, or both.

You have work to do. Get to it, please. Thank you.

 

Russ, regarding Jake_A's list you may also want to start up a campaign to get top rank institutions of higher learning to drop and never to reseek accreditation. Afterall it has been argued that accreditation of first teier schools is nothing more than a huge cost with no return. Assuming that administrators of the top schools in the country are reasonably intelligent, you should have no trouble convincing them to save their money instead of squandering it on such a bad thing.

 

Medical Schools, Dental Schools

tisk tisk tisk,,, regional accreditation agencies do not accredit medical, pharmacy schools/programs and dental schools to confer MD of DDS degrees. These programs are accredited by the AMA, ADA, etc. The RA's do not accredit individual programs. They accredit the entire school.

 

I find it personally fascinating that I can take a course from an accredited school, have them virtually slap a bonified degree into my sweaty palms and never have to take a test that isn't open book. Now, that's something I would love tosee posted on the wall during my next visit to the doctor.

Forget your degrees doc - tack up the grade you received on the English lit test you took junior year and whether it was open book or not. And for god's sake, be honest. I mean afterall, you are speaking as one of many de facto alumni rep for all regionally accredited schools.
__________

My doc got his accelerated BA from UoP.

 

West Coast University in Los Angeles lost accreditation and went out of business.

There is a state approved school by the same name in CA today.

I think it would be interesting if top 10 tier school let go of accreditation and how long it will survive or how it's bottom line be affected.

 

There's nothing "accelerated" about a UoP bachelor's degree. Students are taking a full-time load, completing about 30 s.h. per calendar year. (10 courses, 5 weeks each.)

I don't understand this fascination with open-book tests, as if they're evidence of a lack of academic rigor. Hardly. Open book exams allow for more complicated testing situations, those that more closely resemble real life. (Which is also "open book," by the way.) As an instructor, I prefer them.

As for physicians, I would prefer they approached me "open book." I'd hate to think they were limited to only what they can carry in their heads. My wife is a 4th year nurse pracitioner student with more than 20 years of nursing behind her. She routinely consults references when treating patients. Open book, indeed.

 

I, for one, was unaplogetically apalled at the behavior of the doctor who delivered my first born. He constantly asked the nurse to stop her wiggling about and to please keep her finger on the current page so he wouldn't lose his point of reference. Of course, I may have been slightly less apalled if he had been reading a medical reference instead of a primo back issue of Godzilla vs. Mothman.

By the by, I only use the term "accelerated" because UoP does. Whether or not the quality of education is effected by this "acceleration" bears little or no weight on the marketing department's willingness to engage the term to better develop a revenue stream. And thus, my subsequent willingness to utilize the term, more or less, offers no more or less.

>>An education is the mastery of some body of knowledge, which >>can occur in many places. A degree is a title awarded by a >>recgonized university, and also represents the mastery of a >>particular body of knowledge.

The conceptual combination of your most recent statement with the preceding leads me to conclude that perhaps a degree conferred by a recognized university which would recognize one's mastery of Book Opening is in order. And, as long as there are books to be opened, should one become a master at Book Opening then I would suppose that no one profession would be beyond one's scope.

In any event I hereby publically reserve the singular right to pursue will all due vigor the option to "open book" the MCAT, the LSAT and the GMAT as well as the exams that plumbers, mechanics and refrigerator repair men take to get certified.

 

Good luck then.

How can an open book help you on an aptitude test like GMAT?

 

Usually open book exams are extremely more challenging and difficult then closed book exams.

If you think you can learn the subject during the time of examination than I join Stanislaw in wishing you good luck because you will need it.


Learner

 

You've chosen as examples three admissions tests, not designed to measure one's mastery of a particular body of knowledge. Which book would you have open? Try using a relevant example. Better yet, here's one:

The Bar Exam. Attorneys use references in their jobs every day, all day. Why can't an exam be constructed that would require them to use these references in realistic situations? Pressure can be applied by strict use of time limits. Wouldn't that be better than a rote-response type of test? When you limit the test-taker's ability to utilize his/her information, you have to make a superficial test. And a superficial test can only measure superficial things.

 

Sorry, Jake, I don't take assignments. I stopped doing that years ago. If I want to use twisted logic, I will. If I want to brow-beat, I will. If I want to "big talk" I will do that as well.

If you came out of the wordwork just to criticize me, I have enough detractors if you haven't noticed. One more makes very little difference.

 

Go ahead and open book the LSAT. It won't help you.

ABA approved law schools throughout the country regularly administer open book examinations. These exams are often more difficult than their closed book counterparts.

 

Try everyone within "earshot."

 

If you hope to have any success in pursuading people to agree with you, you can't just demand that everyone accept non-accredited schools in general as legitimate, sight unseen.

You will have to specify which particular non-accredited schools you approve of, and then you will have to convince people to join you in finding them credible.

I've asked you repeatedly how, in the absence of accreditation, people can distinguish between legitimate schools and mills. That question hasn't gone away.

The ability to distinguish between legitimate non-accredited schools and mills is implicit in the whole idea of defending non-accredited schools.

 

I have floated the idea of private agencies (like consumer credit agencies) that have and maintain national databases of higher education in the US to act as an independent and objective source of degree validation.

The benefits of this type of system is that it would be funded by employers (including government) that would pay a small fee for checking the validity of a degree listed on a prospective employees resume. In contrast to regionals, it would also have data on all schools in the country, including unaccredited schools, and would also be able to identify degree mills.

For an additional small fee, the agency could also verify the the attendance of the prospective employee at the institution they named on their resume.